By The Wiz
Guest post by Sheridan
In talking with my LDS friends at park day, they seemed to feel that most LDS moms breastfeed and that potentially because of the support of each other we breastfeed more than the national average. I don’t know if this is true and last night at 3 AM I thought, I should make a survey. I am somewhat limited in my local mormon friends. We are also in California, so I was thinking maybe we are influenced just by living here.
So then I thought, I can do a guest post to Mormon Mommy Wars!
So, I am created this informal survey to gather information from LDS moms regarding their experiences with breastfeeding in relationship to their LDS relationships. It is just 10 questions and I would really appreciate the input.
Go here.
Editor’s note: If this turns into a flame war about breast vs. bottle, I will shut down comments, hunt the flamers down, and throw heavy things at them. Thank you.
I would hope that we’ll get to see the results… my curiosity has been piqued. Wouldn’t we also need a similar poll done of Non-LDS moms?
Comment #1 by AlissaMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:45 amI would also like to see a post with the results
Comment #2 by FoxyJMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:59 amI definitely don’t think the rate will be any different than whatever mix of localities and socioeconomic groups we represent.
Comment #3 by cchrissyyMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:23 amI think the rate will be different, but *maybe* not, because of the things cchrissy mentioned. Here’s why I *think* it will be higher, based on my OWN expereince (which I know not everyone has similar experiences, but hey, just my 2 cents)
Many LDS women(that I know–I live in the midwest, but not in Utah or Idaho) are stay at home moms. This makes it easier to nurse.
The common practice of having your mother or mother in law come stay with you after the baby is born, is from my experience (being a convert and having non-member families and many non-member associates) a practice very particualr to LDS families. The support of having someone there during those first couple of days or weeks, can be extremely beneficial and supportive to a mother who is nursing, especially if it is her first child.
LDS people tend to be more thrifty (I know, this is a HUGE generalization, but I have found it to be very true among almost all of my LDS friends, but perhaps we are just a thrifty bunch!). Breastfeeding is more economical than bottle feeding (by this I mean feeding with formula). My husband was very supportive of my breastfeeding our babies becuase it was practically free. That was his main argumant against bottles when our first child had an incredibly hard time nursing, and I wanted to give up. (”you can’t give up! I don’t want to pay for formula!” and we weren’t hurting for money. He’s just very frugal).
There are probably a lot of other reasons, both that would show a higher rate of nursing among LDS, and a similar rate among LDS to non-LDS women, but that’s all I can come up with right now.
Comment #4 by mellocelloMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:42 amIts definately a thought provoking survey. As I thought about the question “do you think the majority of LDS moms breastfeed,” I realized that although I think they do my personal experience does not support that. Of the 12 moms in my ward who had babies within the last year, only 5 of of us nursed beyond 1 month. Of my cousins, 7 out of 9 chose to formula feed from day 1. Perception is not always reality. I can’t wait to see the results.
Comment #5 by TiffanyMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:53 amIn my comment on the survey I just thought I’d share. I’ve tried to breastfeed in Sacrament- it was the Primary Program. I didn’t want to miss it. My baby however was eating so LOUDLY that I decided to make a quick trip to the Mothers room.
I’ve also nursed in RS but again the noise factor was too distracting to me and everyone else I’d imagine. I go to the Mothers room mostly for my own convinience and comfort.
Comment #6 by AmberMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:58 amI think most LDS moms I know breastfeed, at least for a while. But then again, most moms I know breastfeed at least for a while. I think the rate might be a little higher among LDS women simply because I think the rate of SAHMs is slightly higher among LDS women, and that makes breastfeeding easier.
Comment #7 by VadaMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:59 amWow, Tiffany. That is so interesting. I guess I might be surprised by the results. Only two women in my ward who had babies in the past two years did not nurse, that’s out of 15 babies that were born in our ward in the past two years. I wonder why the difference. This is so interesting to me!
Comment #8 by mellocelloMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:06 amI hardly know anyone who didn’t nurse–but that’s LDS and non. I guess I don’t know a lot of working moms?
Comment #9 by dangermomMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:12 amBefore I had kids and I worked almost all the working moms I knew would pump while at work so they could contiune to nurse. (most of those women were not lds too) But I know that the popularity of nursing has had its ups and downs depending on where you lived and what decade you had your babies in.
Comment #10 by moddyMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:26 amI took the survey. You raised some good points. I have always nursed anytime, anywhere, and have sometimes felt brazen for doing so when others in the church seem to prefer more “modesty.”
It angers me that some people wish to ghettoize breastfeeding to special rooms, however nice they may be, and sometimes they are not so nice (windowless, small, stinky because they’re where mothers change diapers also).
But I feel enough ownership in the church (and just about everywhere else that I go) that I have a “if you don’t like it, you can leave” sort of attitude. Which may not be exactly Christ-like, but it gets me through.
Am also interested in results.
Comment #11 by Jane @ What About Mom?March 27th, 2008 at 4:27 amThe only thing I wished was on the survey was a reason why you chose to do either. There are certain moms that no matter how much they want to cannot breast feed. Talk about being stigmatized. (hope this doesn’t fall into the flame war arena)
Comment #12 by chroniclerMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:39 amchronicler, I agree-there are some things that are difficult to measure, and whether or not someone actually did breastfeed often doesn’t reflect their deepest desires or what they would have done if it had truly been all up to them.
I wished that many of the questions would have had more options than just “yes” or “no” because my experiences were often too complex to fit into just those two categories. My situation is very unique as an adoptive mom who has now induced lactation twice and made almost no milk either time. Questions like “was I successful?” and “did I enjoy my nursing experience?” were very difficult to answer as my feelings are very complicated–I couldn’t say just yes or no (though I did pick just one answer in each case).
Comment #13 by eljeeMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:52 amOooh. This is such a big topic for me. When my first was born I was invited to join a mom’s group that I am still in 8 years later. I live in the Salt Lake area but am the only one out of 15 or so that is LDS. Many of the members of the group are from the Le Leche League. Yep, they are MAJOR breastfeeders. I have turned out to really support breastfeeding too, though not on the level of some of these women.
The most opposition I have received has been at church. Suprisingly, quite a few women in my ward have no interest in breastfeeding (by choice) and I often feel uncomfortable talking about it with them. Also, many of them do it for just a few weeks.
As my third is baby is not so much a baby anymore I’m not sure what to do. She is almost 17 months and shows NO sign of wanting to stop. It is her only comfort and it’s actually really nice for both of us. I do feel some outside pressure (real or not) to stop soon. Even my own neices (who have kids) were very shocked when they realized I was still nursing. It is actually my non-mormon friends I have been turning to for support.
By the way, I ended up putting a sign in the mother’s room requesting that poopy diapers be changed in the bathroom if possible and provided plastic bags if it wasn’t. It’s a much better room now, though I really don’t nurse if public anymore.
Comment #14 by mMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:57 amJane,
I have the same attitude about nursing, except when it comes to places where people *shouldn’t be expected* to leave if they have a problem. Like during sunday school, or at a welfare meeting, when there are many men in the room. *I’m* not uncomfortable nursing around men, but I realize that some men are very uncomfortable being around a nursing mother who is not their wife. They are not being prudish or disrespectful, they just have a different comfort level than others might, and I try to take that into consideration when I’m nursing. but I’ll do it pretty much anywhere, as long as I’m not sitting in a meeting with a bunch of men.
You’re right about the mother’s lounges. Peee-yew! I always nursed in the foyers. With my hooter-hider on, because my babies liked to pull away all of a sudden. Fun times! Talking about this makes me miss nursing. It was such a wonderful expereince, , for the most part.
Comment #15 by mellocelloMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:58 amInteresting survey. My son was born 6 weeks early and I wasn’t sure if I could breastfeed or not, given that he was taken to the NICU in a different hospital when he was born and I didn’t even see him till 3 days later. I had a ton of support from the ladies in church when I mentioned I wasn’t sure about breastfeeding anymore–they gave me advice, showed me how to really use the breast pump the hospital provided, told me different herbs and stuff I could try to boost my supply, etc. It seems like every mother in my ward breastfeeds.
Ultimately, my body didn’t respond to pumping and when my son was released from the NICU after 3 weeks, I had to switch to formula feeding him. I feel guilty and ashamed about this, especially when I go to church or talk to the ladies who helped me in the early days. I haven’t had to feed my boy in church yet and I am scared that when I whip out that bottle of formula I will get dirty looks. I wanted to breastfeed, but it just didn’t work out for us. I am worried that somehow I won’t be seen as a good mother since I didn’t “try harder” or whatever.
Anyway, long rambling story, blah blah, my baby is 8 weeks old now and he appears to be surviving just fine on formula. So I guess I shouldn’t feel as guilty as I do
Comment #16 by KrisMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:01 amKris,
What an ordeal it sounds like you went through. so great that your baby is doing well!!!
Please, pelase please don’t listen to anyone who gives you a hard time about not breatfeeding. and if they give you dirty looks, just smile and wave! *YOU* are your babies momma, and *YOU* are doing what’s best for him. It’s not any one else’s business! I know what you are going through. My MIL is waaay in support of nursing. She is La Leche and everything. It was scary thinking that she would judge my choices if I couldn’t nurse, and I was ultimatley able to, but I remember her judgemental looks she would give me when I voiced my doubt if nursing was really going to work. It was very hard.
Hang in there! I have been known to say this to the judgy-von-holier than thous:
“Just think how much practice you are getting at the whole “don’t judge others” thing becuase of what I’m doing!”
That shuts ‘em up pretty quick.:)
Comment #17 by mellocelloMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:17 ammy guess is that the rates ARE higher for lds, based on geographic breastfeeding stats i’ve seen… utah and idaho are usually higher.
but, my anecdotal experience is the exact opposite. i receive the most criticism and the least support from church members, as a whole. i was practically burned at the stake in a former ward because i wouldn’t leave sacrament meeting to nurse the baby (never mind that i had a 3yo, 2yo, and a husband who was at work!).
Comment #18 by makakonaMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:27 amooh, here’re some fun maps: http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/data/NIS_data/data_2004.htm
Comment #19 by makakonaMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:29 amhey, let’s go for another post… interestingly, those cdc surveys were dubbed the “national immunization survey.” without getting into the politics of vaccinations, breastfeeding rates are higher than average among families that choose alternate forms of the recommended immunization schedule. if the survey was conducted in conjunction with immunization info, i would venture to say the results are lower than they should be.
Comment #20 by makakonaMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:32 amAt first I read this and thought, yeah there is a lot of pressure. But then, I thought about my two kids and it was about even. I actually just got more pressure from the hospitals and all the reading I did. With my second, I just did it because I could do it and it wasn’t as big of a deal. I would LOVE to breastfeed at church in the open, but never dared. I breastfeed in other public places though, so I am not sure what my deal is. I think it is just so quiet at church and sometimes the latch on can be tricky. Also, in my Ward right now, we have a woman that breastfeeds all the time, no matter who is next to her or where she is sitting. I wouldn’t mind so much, but it is REALLY LOUD. I mean, really, really loud. So loud it is distracting. I love her, but wish she would excuse herself. Most others I don’t mind.
Comment #21 by KatieMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:40 amKris,
I had a similar experience with preemie twins. I would have loved to have breastfed, but neither one really ever latched on.
I think with twins, people were a little more sympathetic. Instead of saying, “Are you nursing?” they asked “Are you able to nurse?” (as if it is really any of their business anyway!) Does everyone have random strangers at the grocery store ask them about their personal decision whether or not to breastfeed like I did? Sheesh. The worst part was I felt like I owed them an answer.
I live in a rural area of California and most moms I know make an effort to breastfeed, but most women I know are SAHMs. Interesting food for thought.
Comment #22 by BridgetMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:46 amSo funny you post this. I have a 3 day old baby and I am not breastfeeding. I made this choice before she was born, but I let the nurese bully me into trying in the hospital. I wish I had just stuck to my guns. I have nursed other children, but this one I am not. For many reasons. My reasons. Frankly, I DON”T feel guilty. It is no one elses business than my own. I am the one that lives my life and knows my limits.
I live just outside SF and many moms here do nurse, but many don’t. I am more worried about what my LDS friends will say than anyone else (they also tend to be more vocal on many other child rearing issues…)
I have been hesitant to put this on my blog because I know I will get some feedback.
I wish we could just support each other. I wish women didn’t feel guilty for making either a choice about this or not being able to. We need to give ourselves a break. This isn’t the case with all people but it seems to be that way a lot. My non LDS friends have been really fine with it. Some work, some don’t, some nurse and pump no matter what, so switched to the bottle. Maybe it is becuase I live in a more liberal area, but I have felt that my mom friends have just respected each others decisions.
BTW..I have been working with a lactation consultant (even us bottle moms use them) and she told me that if anyone gave me attitude to let them know that “I put my big girl panties on this morning and can make my own choices”. I was suprised. I thought she would be hard core…. who knew?
Comment #23 by rebaMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:56 amHow cool is that? You can make your own surveys up on a whim. Now send it on over to fMh and see what happens.
Comment #24 by JamiMarch 27th, 2008 at 7:59 ami couldn’t access the survey.
Comment #25 by apple pieMarch 27th, 2008 at 12:22 pmI couldn’t take the survey either.
Comment #26 by JamieMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:09 pmI couldn’t access the survey either. I was one of those moms who loved to breastfeed, and had no problems with my first three. My fourth was 6 weeks early, and in the NICU for 10 days, while I was in the ICU for a week, also on life support. Needless to say, she was not only my last, but there was also no way to breastfeed her. My body refused to produce milk while it was healing. I LOVED bottle feeding! I felt just as close to my child, and my husband loved being able to help. I am actually glad that I got to experience both sides of “how to feed”.
Comment #27 by kimMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:30 pmI have many LDS and non LDS friends and there were definitely more LDS that breastfed, but I never noticed any judgemental things said to those who chose not to. I agree with previous posters that it may also have had more to do with SAHM’s vs non SAHM’s and other extenuating (sp?)circumstances maybe?! Good question today!!!
Coming in this a day late, no survey. However wanted to add another category: Mommies who use breast milk in bottles, i.e. not technically breast feeding, but using only breast milk.
My d-i-l needs to do this as baby has difficulties that are eased by using a bottle. (Writing this now remembering that m-i-l also chose this method as one of her children was born with a cleft palette.)
Any who, another wrench.
Comment #28 by s'meeMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:31 pmPretty much everyone I know nurse. That being said I’ve had two babies, both preemies and I pumped and pumped, got sick and ended up having to stop both times, my body doesn’t like to pump. No one was mean about it at all. I think they were just glad that they didn’t go through what I did.
With this baby on the way, I have no intention of nursing (pumping) unless it shows up on time. Pumping sucks period.
And with that being said #2 had a milk protien allergy and they may not want me to nurse #3 either.
I too think it’s a lot of being thrifty and not having to go back to work. It takes a huge commitment if you have to go to work to pump and I think LDS women would be just like other women and not want to go through the hassle.
I don’t think it has to do a lot with being “earthy, green whatever”.
Now it would be interesting to see a poll who nurses and uses clothe diapers, you’d see the numbers go down dramatically.
Comment #29 by SarahMarch 27th, 2008 at 2:39 pmHa! mello, that is awesome. I will have to remember that. Thanks for your comment.
I think a lot of my nervousness is because I am brand new in our ward and I don’t know ANYONE here, so I was trying to make a good impression so that I could make friends blah blah whatever I am just psychotic.
Bridget, heck yes random people asked about my breastfeeding choice! I was so weirded out by that-I have never had so many people interested in what my breasts were doing! I’m glad I wasn’t the only one!
Comment #30 by KrisMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:07 pmMost LDS mom’s I know BF. I did with my first child for 4 months then formula with my second and now the third child is BF and has been for 8 months.
Comment #31 by AprilMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:11 pmI tried cloth diapers! My baby leaked through EVERY SINGLE ONE and we gave up after 5 weeks. I was really sad that it didn’t work. Looking back on it, I think that I might have had more success if I had bought a more expensive kind of cloth diaper.
Anyway, with my (first) baby I was all gung-ho to breastfeed. She was a huge baby (over 10 lbs) and at three weeks of age she was still loosing weight and her doctor said that I needed to supplement with the bottle. I was so upset and cried through the first several bottles. We kept up some breastfeeding for six months and I’m glad that I did that. I felt so guilty about the bottle for months, but my baby was much healthier, happier and heavier with it.
I’m pregnant with #2 and will try breastfeeding again, but if I’m not able to do it exclusively, that will be ok too.
Comment #32 by Nancy R.March 27th, 2008 at 3:22 pmMy first is 7 weeks old. Nursing was so hard for us to pick up. I remember crying the first few days home because I could never hold her without her starting to cry because she could smell food but couldn’t latch on to get enough to be full. I would hand her to my husband or mom so that she could calm down, and so I could calm down. I remember the first bottle I fed her, I cried… but then I had never felt better after because my baby was finally full!
We decided to just pump and give her breast milk in a bottle. What do you know? The night after buying everything (and using the pump… go figure), we both figured out what we were doing. Now we nurse almost exclusively (I hate jalepeno chili last night - she was NOT happy about it), but I like that I have the choice.
Comment #33 by Erin MarieMarch 27th, 2008 at 3:49 pmI couldn’t access the survey either. I would really like to. Is there anyway to reopen it?
Comment #34 by NatalieMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:28 pmKris,
My first baby was in the NICU as well. He went in the day after we came home from the hospital. I wanted very much to breastfeed, but the pump did nothing for me. I was neither eating nor sleeping. I pumped faithfully every hour and a half. I would get like 2cc’s each time. I felt humiliated. I felt like the nurses thought I wasn’t trying. When the baby came home (still hooked up to all sorts of tubes) I stayed hooked up to the pump for three more weeks, combined with trying to nurse the baby in between. It’s all I did. Nothing.
I too felt like other mothers were judging me and thought that I either hadn’t tried hard enough or had made a selfish decision. It was horribly painful. I felt as though I had failed my baby. I also thought that he got sick because I wasn’t producing breast milk and dehydration was a major factor in his illness.
That baby is now almost eight years old. Three more have followed. Despite my best efforts (pumps, pills, herbs, rigorous nursing schedule) I have not been able to breast feed a single one. It is disappointing each time, but not horribly painful as it used to be. I don’t try so hard because I feel pressure. I do it because I think I would truly enjoy it.
Here is what I’ve learned over the years. Many of those who stare when you’re bottle feeding are either actually just looking at the baby, or they are innocently curious which choice you made. Many moms are insecure about either choice. Some are wondering what’s in the bottle and comparing your choice to their own and passing judgment on themselves instead of you. They may be wondering if it’s breast milk and wishing they’d thought to bring pumped milk to church. They may be wondering how you came to the decision to formula feed and wishing they’d even felt it was an option.
My point is that over the years I’ve realized there are fewer nipple nazis than I had supposed. Most mothers are supportive of others’ choices. Most are insecure about their own. One of the best things you can do is talk to moms around you about your experience. You will find more support and understanding than you think. There may also be others who are nursing but don’t like it and feel extremely guilty. These moms will appreciate hearing your story as well as they may be searching for someone who will not look down on them should they choose to stop.
Best of luck.
Comment #35 by solMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:38 pmThis is such an emotional subject, especially if you have problems nursing. It’s been a horrible experience for me both times I have tried. With my first I had such a small milk supply that she got mostly formula and I tried EVERYTHING, including guilt, but nothing worked. Then with my second I decided to give it 2 weeks and if nursing didn’t work in that time I would switch to formula but the latch wasn’t working so I pumped. For 5 months!! By the fifth month, I could only produce about 2 ounces a day. Needless to say, the thought of having a third child overwhelmed me to the point of not wanting to until I decided that nursing is just not going to work for me and this time I’ll go straight to the bottle. What a relief! When I have told friends of my decision, it’s met with surprise at first, but then total support. I think the worst part about the whole thing is the guilt that we have when really, the most important thing is for both baby and mommy to be healthy and happy.
Comment #36 by Lady of Perpetual ChaosMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:42 pmNovel….complete. ;o)
I used cloth diapers with my first. With #2 it was either induce lactation or do cloth diapers, I couldn’t handle both.
I think Sarah is right that in most cases, nursing for LDS women is not about being “green”. For me, however, my decision to breastfeed was not influenced in any way by the LDS women around me. It had everything to do with being involved with “natural family living” and attachment parenting. If I hadn’t been into those things, I highly doubt I would have even seriously considered breastfeeding as an adoptive mother. Even though over time I have started to drift away from many of those ideals, I still have a really difficult time in my own mind getting rid of the idea that nursing = mothering. Even though I cannot live up to it very well, that belief still has such an impact on me, and not always positive.
Comment #37 by eljeeMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:44 pmI haven’t read all the comments, but we may end up with some false causality here because:
(1) women with a higher education level tend to breastfeed more
and
(2) LDS women tend to have higher than average education rates
so LDS women may not be breastfeeding at higher rates because they are LDS but because they are breastfeeding at the rate you would expect for women of their education level.
Comment #38 by Julie M. SmithMarch 27th, 2008 at 4:45 pm“There may also be others who are nursing but don’t like it and feel extremely guilty.”
Thanks sol! For the six months that I was partial breastfeeding, I really didn’t like it. Everyone around me was like “Oh, isn’t breastfeeding so wonderful?! You must love every minute of it!” I would always smile and nod because I didn’t want to seem like a bad or selfish mother. I loved my baby and we bonded instantly, but I wasn’t a big fan of being the Milk Lady. Each eating session (breast + bottle) took about 75 minutes for the first three months and my baby ate 8 times a day. So for months I spent 10 hours a day feeding her. It was so hard.
Comment #39 by Nancy R.March 27th, 2008 at 4:46 pmhello…I WANT to access the survey. A little help here? Or am I a day late and a dollar short?
Comment #40 by apple pieMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:14 pmThe survey is back up. I got so many responses, I had to upgrade my account! Thanks for all being willing, I am excited to see the responses!
Comment #41 by SheridanMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:41 pmOnce again (and this is getting weird), I agree with everything sol said.
I can’t stand to be around women who feel the need to justify endlessly why they bottle-feed, and I can’t stand to be around women who preach “breast is best no matter what”. But I love to be around women who support each other and love each other and know that everyone is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.
Julie M. Smith-
Comment #42 by cherylMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:47 pmThat’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought of it that way before (i.e. education).
I just wanted to add, that I know this is a very emotional issue for many moms. There are many who want to and it just doesn’t work for them, for whatever reason. My heart goes out to you. I also have friends who choose not to even try and I understand their reasoning and for them it is the best choice. So of course I support them in that.
As a Childbirth Educator I like to offer support to moms to try to breastfeed, but understand it is an individual choice.
I have breastfed in Sacrament meeting, but the next week I learned the error of my ways when my DH wanted me to just stay and nurse instead of escape to the mother’s room. I realized I much preferred to go nurse in quiet (or chatting with other moms) than try and stay discreet with my other kids pulling on me.
I had a great Sunday School class, a Marriage and Parenting one, taught by a mom who Breastfed and I asked if it was ok if I BF during class. She was fine with it, so I did. I loved that class. I also didn’t feel bad if the baby was talking or whatever.
I have also BF during Relief Society, quite a lot. I actually once stood up and bore my testimony while BF… I didn’t go to the front of the room or anything, but still. It still cracks me up to think about that. My friends all shake there head with a smile and say, “Only you would do that.”
They love me anyway.
Comment #43 by SheridanMarch 27th, 2008 at 5:53 pmJust to quickly point out that if you need to establish a milk supply or pump for a medical reason, it’s worth it to rent a hospital grade pump. It’s a big deal to pump milk under any circumstance, but it’s a lot easier with the durable medical equipment than even an expensive model off the shelf.
Comment #44 by ResearcherMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:17 pmAmen to that, Researcher.
Comment #45 by The WizMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:28 pmYeah, the hospital grade are better, but even they don’t work for many a mommy. They sure do stay on though. I could have both sides hooked up and both hands free. I felt like a dairy cow.
Comment #46 by solMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:30 pm“Once again (and this is getting weird), I agree with everything sol said.”
Yes, the assimilation is almost complete. (She says while rubbing hands together greedily.)
Comment #47 by solMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:32 pmI really wanted to breastfeed my first baby, but when we took her in for her two-week check she had lost a pound from her birth weight instead of being back up to it. Those had been a rough two weeks, as you can imagine, because she cried so much and we didn’t know it was because she was hungry. We took her home and started the formula and wow, we got a different baby! She would sleep and everything! Because I wanted to nurse her still anyway, we did both until she decided at 9 months that her 2 ounces of breastmilk weren’t worth it.
I felt awful about it for a long time, and angry that despite praying that my body would be able to make enough for her it never happened. I tried pumping, etc. to help more milk come, but nothing. I had no idea it might not work–word on the street is that your body just makes enough, end of story.
The good news is that I’ve nursed her two sisters and made enough for them, and am two weeks into nursing baby brother. I like it, I love the fact that I’m giving him antibodies here at the end of flu season, I love that I have to be the one to sit and take a break when he is hungry, and it is cheap! Though here’s my random note–I have inverted nipples (TMI?–sorry) and this time the lactation consultant got me a shield and I LOVE IT!! It makes latching so easy! The concern with it is an insufficient milk supply, but so far so good. I guess the fourth time around my body has figured this out. The shield was just in time because baby boy was so sleepy in the hospital, I was starting to worry about dehydration.
Anyway–the important thing is that we’re feeding them, one way or another.
Comment #48 by mbMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:40 pmOne more thought. #2 had the milk protien allergy (pooing blood) and we had to do Nutramagin.
Breastmilk and reg formula is WAY BETTER than that dang stuff. $25.00 bucks a can of nasty stuff that smells like vomit.
Comment #49 by SarahMarch 27th, 2008 at 6:51 pmI have strong feelings about breastfeeding - as I think most Moms do. My strong feelings are that I should be able to do whatever I want without feeling guilty. I have three strong, healthy, children. Some were breastfed, some were not. That’s my choice. I’m not done having babies and I might breastfeed next time, or I might not. I do what I think is best for me, my family, and my baby. End of story.
But I do think it will be interesting to see the results of this pole.
Comment #50 by NancyMarch 27th, 2008 at 7:37 pmMy experience was really hard at first. I saw 3 different lac. consultants in the hospital, worked with 1 fantastic consultant for 3 months after, still had a lot of pain, latch problems, nipple blebs, engorgement, vasospasms, yeast infection, etc. But I didn’t want to give up, and at the same time I had emotional meltdowns regularly. My mother in law is a lactation consultant and has done it for like 20 years. She helped quite a lot on the phone,and I worked with her in person. In fact, I’d say she’s the reason I’m still doing it. My baby is now almost 9 months old. It’s still not completely pain-free all of the time, but I stuck it out. (I take supplements that help a lot.) This is not to say that I think that other Moms in similar situations should stick it out. I often saw those posters of moms breastfeeding their babies and were all smiley and comfortable–and I wanted to throw DARTS at them! AAH! So I completely understand when women decide, ‘no, I’m going to do formula.’
Comment #51 by MarisaMarch 27th, 2008 at 9:31 pmAs an interesting side note, my mother in law’s daughter just physically couldn’t breastfeed. She couldn’t get a milk supply going and didn’t have enough breast tissue to do it. And my MIL was there with her in the beginning! So once in a while even those professionals have clients who simply can’t.
Interesting thread. I bfed DD for 21 months. The first two months were pure h*ll. I had a colicky baby who wanted to nurse 24/7, including during her “naps”. Once we got through the hard part, bfing was bliss. Free, convenient, and best of all, I lost the 70 lbs I gained during pregnancy no problem.
Comment #52 by SarahMarch 27th, 2008 at 9:45 pmI thought the LDS community in general was supportive of breastfeeding–as long as you didn’t flash anyone! My first two children were born in Utah. I felt a very supportive atmosphere at church and with other mothers.
I gave birth to two children in Sweden. In Sweden, the attitude toward breastfeeding was much more militant. That was the only option, with only two types of formula available for people who wanted to bottle feed. I appreciated the fact that I could breastfeed anywhere and even flash someone without getting dirty looks or whatever. But when I had my fourth child, I couldn’t breastfeed because of the medication I took to control a serious condition I had. The stigma was so great in the hospital that I asked my doctor to write a note explaining why I was not breastfeeding so that the staff would be supportive.
Comment #53 by TiffanyMarch 28th, 2008 at 12:21 amSome of us don’t lose weight as we breastfeed; we gain it. Lucky me. With the exrtra weight gain, I tend to get depressed. I believe in choice and I don’t get why people feel the need to be martyrs for the breastfeeding cause. I believe that happy mama means happy baby and that whatever one chooses is up to them. If, however, you happen to be a SAHM LDS mom with oodles and oodles of time on your hands (sarcastic tone there)with a college diploma hanging on the wall and toddlers hanging from all limbs and you then decide not to breastfeed so that you don’t go insane, be prepared to have to defend your stance to many a RS sister. Why, oh why must we insist on knowing and questioning the decisions of others? To each their own. Isn’t it great that we have a choice? I have 4 kids, half bottle and half breast fed. All four are fabulously fine and I honestly don’t see a difference in their intelligence levels, immune system functioning, or in the way that each of them is bonded to me. Just my little input on the issue.
Comment #54 by MommymaniaMarch 28th, 2008 at 5:15 amI breastfed my son, would do it again if I happen to have any others. However, being LDS had nothing to do with it. 2 factors:
1. I knew it was the best thing I could do for my son.
2. It was free.
Sadly, #2 weighed more heavily in my mind- as we were young & broke.
Comment #55 by MelMarch 28th, 2008 at 1:44 pmMommymania,
It seems like you had some rough expereinces regarding other’s judging your decisions. That is unfortunate. I know I ask mothers if they nurse or not, and also how it is going when they have *newborns* because I wish someone had asked me how it was going when I was trying to nurse my son in those first two weeks. It went HORRIBLY! But everyone assumed that since I was nursing, it was alllll good, but I really could have used a shoulder to cry on from another understanding mother. But some of these posts have made me realize that my asking might seem like I’m asking so I can judge *if* they are *not* breastfeeding, which isn’t the case, but I can see how some might assume I’m asking just to judge them. I guess I should listen to my own words: It’s really none of my business. Although, in my defense, I usually only ask my close friends. Hopefully they know I would not judge them. If a friend needs a shoulder to cry on becuase they are having a hard time of it, hopefully I will just be perceptive of that, and just use my eyes (duh) to see whether or not they are nursing their baby.
Anyway, thanks for the shift in perspective.
Comment #56 by mellocelloMarch 28th, 2008 at 2:21 pmI absolutely loved nursing my daughter. She nursed to 17 months, when she weaned herself. However, I would not have made it past week 1 without the support of a doula and a trip to a very good lactation consultant. I try very hard not to judge others decisions, but to me breastfeeding is the only option I would even consider for myself.
I will try to be less shocked when I see someone pulling out a bottle in church. Although I will continue to be appalled at 4 year olds still drinking out of bottles during sacrament meeting.
Comment #57 by LindsayMarch 28th, 2008 at 5:50 pmAfter 4 kids I felt that the survey should have allowed for answers based on which child I was talking about. My kids were all SO VERY different when it came to nursing. I even weaned them all for completely different reasons. I was able to nurse some in public and some I couldn’t.
As for pressure, I never felt any pressure from friends or church members. I felt TONS of pressure from WIC and from nurses and doctors. I agree with the comments that say it is probably more of a stay at home mom/frugal thing than a religious culture thing.
And if anyone has a hard time understanding women who don’t nurse, just ask me what my son did to my breasts. I didn’t want to wean him so early, but when you lift your shirt and have blood trails from each nipple down your garments, and he ISN’T biting… well, not all bottle feeding moms want to use the bottle, some of us have to.
Comment #58 by LizzyMarch 28th, 2008 at 8:10 pmP.S. I think it would be good to ask on the survey:
Where did you first learn that breast feeding was best?
Where, or who, first gave you the impression that bottle feeding wasn’t good?
For me the answer to the first one is in materials I had read during pregnancy.
Answer to the second is from my nurse. When I had my first child my nipples didn’t change. They were still as pink and hard as they were when I was 15. It HURT for the first 6 months and I pumped a lot (I often felt like I was milking a cow and the cow was me) But every time I voiced my pain a nurse would tell me I wasn’t doing ti right, or they would spout off about the healthy benefits, or something else. None of them EVER said that formula would be ok. It was my LDS friends that bottle fed that helped me get through the issue I had with my son. They were the ones telling me to ignore the doctors and do what I knew was right.
Comment #59 by LizzyMarch 28th, 2008 at 8:25 pmSeriously, dudes. I think people do mothers such a disservice when they tell them “if you do it correctly it doesn’t hurt.” That is a diabolical lie, at least in my case, and that of many of my friends. With my first baby, it was the most unbelievable pain for 6 weeks, at which point it became slightly more bearable. We’re talking putting a folded towel in my clenched teeth for me to scream into. But I felt passionately that it was the right thing for me to do, so I stuck it out. I think there are women who would like to breastfeed, but feel like they’re failing because it’s so excruciating. And if you don’t want to deal with all of that, you have my blessing. Heaven knows we all have enough other things to worry about. But I found, especially with my last child, that I loved the fact that I was FORCED to sit down and take a breather at least 5 times a day. So we watched a lot of TV during that time, so what? A rested mommy is a happy mommy, and as someone upthread said, happy mommy means happy baby.
Comment #60 by LayneMarch 28th, 2008 at 8:59 pmWell, I disagree and agree with the idea that “if you do it correctly, it shouldn’t hurt.” I myself am one of those that experiences pain even though I’m sure my technique is right. My mother-in-law is a lactation consultant and she and I both have/had a condition where the blood vessels in the nipple spasm through feedings, making it very painful. (Called vasospasms.) (As I said earlier in the comments conversation, supplements have saved me!) But with talking to her, and reading books on bfeeding (Jack Newman’s The Ultimate Breastfeeding Answer Guide for example), most women’s pain can be resolved when they go to a lactation consultant and are shown a few “tricks”–positioning differently, using nipple shields, cup feeding, lactation aid, better latch techniques, etc. But Layne, you and some of your friends might very well be in the group where nothing can really be done to alleviate the pain.
Comment #61 by MarisaMarch 29th, 2008 at 3:00 am“I will try to be less shocked when I see someone pulling out a bottle in church. Although I will continue to be appalled at 4 year olds still drinking out of bottles during sacrament meeting.”
I am NOT trying to start a flame war here or embarrass the author of the above comment. I am, however, going to use it to make a point.
The above statement is right at the heart of much of this thread. Why should we care if someone decides to breast or bottle feed? Why do we care how long another’s child uses a bottle or a pacifier? What difference is it to us when someone else chooses to potty train or put their kids to bed or whatever else?
I think it is based in our own insecurities. We are somehow threatened by others’ choices because they show us that so much of what we’ve held up as important really isn’t. It can also invoke fear that maybe we made the wrong choice. Why does one choice have to be right or better? What does any of it matter in the end except that we understand that each of us is different and most of us have the best intentions. How those intentions play out will be and should be different to be authentic.
Let us be confident in others’ good intentions as much as our own.
Comment #62 by solMarch 29th, 2008 at 3:10 am“Let us be confident in others’ good intentions as much as our own.”
Comment #63 by JamiMarch 29th, 2008 at 3:54 amWhen you’re right, you are right, sol.
I have a few things I wanted to say after reading all the comments:
1. I used to think that almost every LDS mother breast fed, but that is just because of what I experienced at church. All the babies born in the same year that my son was born were breast fed. I rarely see bottles at church. It’s been interesting to read the comments here and see that my experience isn’t the necessarily the norm and that there are a lot of mothers in the church that don’t breast feed.
2. The poster above (m) who is nursing her 17 month old daughter, try not to worry about the pressure to stop if nursing is still working for you and your dd. I thought I would add that I am nursing my 20 month old son and he, too, has no plans of stopping soon, so I can relate to what you’re going through! But I’ve decided that it just doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks! My son is still very much attached to bfing and I still love bfing him, and that is all that matters.
3. I have no issues with mothers who choose not to bf and do not judge anyone for their choice. I know that we are all doing the best we can and we all need the support of one another in this incredibly difficult job of raising children. It is so sad how we often pit ourselves against one another just because of how we feed our babies! I think that breast feeding may give babies a great start, but it is the life long eating habits that matter in the long run. It’s what the child is fed after they are weaned from the bottle/breast and the attitudes towards food that they develop that are really what’s important. If I breast feed and then go on to feed my child pure junk, how healthy is my child really going to be?
4. Sol pointed out that often women are curious about bottle feeding because they are insecure about their own choice but I wanted to point out that sometimes we, or at least I am, just curious about it for curiosity sake! I often do wonder why other moms bottle feed but I never, ever ask if I can’t bring it up in a way that doesn’t sound judgemental. Because I am not judging and I would never want another mom to think that I am. I am just genuinely curious about other people’s choices, especially ones that differ from my own. As someone who breast feeds, I find it hard not to be curious about bottle feeding because there are so many reasons why someone may be bottle feeding. I often wonder if it was a choice or if breast feeding just didn’t work out the way they wanted it to. It makes no difference to me either way, but I still wonder. But often, I don’t ask, because like other people said, it isn’t my business to know why.
Comment #64 by ReneeMarch 29th, 2008 at 7:14 am“but I wanted to point out that sometimes we, or at least I am, just curious about it for curiosity sake!”
Totally! I was trying to highlight a few instances in which the staring isn’t indicative of the passing of judgment we so often assume. There are many other reasons we watch each other so carefully. I still believe it has almost everything to do with comparing experiences. Not judging choices, just trying to make sense of our own experiences by seeing them in the light of another’s experiences. It is a natural curiosity. It is also how we learn. The downside is when it actually does turn into sour judgment, but I think that is way less often than we suppose.
Comment #65 by solMarch 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pmI like to ask other mothers about bottle feeding so that I will be prepared in case I am totally unable to breast feed. With all the pressure of “breast is best” it can be hard to find honest information about bottle feeding and that can make it scary to a mother who suddenly has to use a bottle even though they had planned on using the breast.
Comment #66 by LizzyMarch 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm“When you’re right, you are right, sol.”
Isn’t this all the time?
Comment #67 by solMarch 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pmSeems to me you asked that we all begin our comments to you with an affirmation of your wisdom. I’ve just been doing my part, babe.
Comment #68 by JamiMarch 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pmI breastfed for three reasons:
1. my mom had breastfed all nine of her children + one friend’s child
2. It was free (and I’m cheap)
3. I’m lazy. The thought of washing bottles, getting up in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning to make a bottle, not to mention all the ‘toting’ of stuff? I’d much rather use what I’ve got.
I firmly believe in the power of agency in parenting- whether that is breastfeeding or bottle feeding, medicated or unmedicated births, vaginal or c-section, homebirth or hospital birth, 7pm bedtime or 10pm bedtime, homeschool or public school etc.
I like to talk to others about their choices- but mostly out of curiosity’s sake like was mentioned earlier. Also when a mom makes a choice that’s ‘against the norm’ they’re usually passionate about it- and I like hearing about why people feel that way.
Comment #69 by Soggy CheeriosMarch 30th, 2008 at 3:13 amI’m coming in late, but I just wanted to give my perspective. I BFd all three of my babies. At first it was a rebellion toward all those doctors and nurses who said I couldn’t (my DS was born with a cleft). I spent 3 months of pure torture pumping and bottle feeding with the pumped milk practically constantly since it took DS FOREVER to finish off a bottle. When he got his corrective surgery at 3 months he knew just what to do and just took off on the BF. I fought with my work for a couple longer breaks for pumping and totally won. I don’t know if anyone else has used their hard won pumping benefits, but I was proud. In fact, I fought with the Police Officer Training Academy for pumping breaks while I was training and BFing. I got complained about in church for BFing in any and all meetings, but still did it anyway. I was blessed to lose all the baby weight fast and easy. I wouldn’t trade BFing for anything. I learned a lot about myself, others around me, and my babies. Thanks for this post!
Comment #70 by ex-cop momMarch 31st, 2008 at 3:06 amOk, I’m way late, BUT, I had to say that this was the most supportive conversation about breast and bottle (not “vs.” just “and) feeding that I’ve ever heard. I didn’t read every last comment, but no one seemed crazy, which is rare! Just another reason I love to come here!
Comment #71 by TaraApril 2nd, 2008 at 3:22 pm