By Heather O.
When I listen (which isn’t all that often–mostly I’m too busy talking, or eating Oreos), I hear stuff about Mormon women. Some of it is good stuff. Some of it is bad stuff. Almost all of it makes me uncomfortable.
I hear about how amazing Mormon women are, how accomplished we are, what fantastic things we can (or should ) do.
Then there’s the other stuff. Mormon women are oppressed. We are brainwashed, or we are miserable. We put on a happy face because we have to, but we are all secretly dying inside because of the pain that our religion has caused us.
I don’t know that I can buy into all of it.
Most Mormon women I know are pretty, well, normal. They have good days and bad days. They have days when they deserve domestic diva goddess awards, and days when you wonder what color the floor is under all the stuff. They love their families, and they love their religion, but man, sometimes the Bishop does lame things that makes them roll their eyes, and sometimes they are so pushed to the limit by their children that they want to chuck them all out the window.
My son plays T-ball with a bunch of neighborhood kids, and I listen to their Catholic moms talk about their religion, and their lives, and most of them are pretty much like Mormon women. They love their religion and their kids, but man, did you hear what Father so-and-so did? Boy that got me steamed. And if that kid sasses me one more time, I might just have to ground him for a month.
We are a peculiar people. I get that. And yeah, I have some different views of God than my Catholic neighbors do. But the struggles I face as a religious mother are not all that different than the struggles they face: protecting our kids from evil influences, like drugs, alcohol, and people who would want to hurt them, trying to teach them about having a relationship with Christ in a world that would tell them otherwise, and trying to feed them food that won’t make them poster children for the childhood obesity epidemic.
I’m uncomfortable with rhetoric that makes Mormon women martyrs. We are not martyrs. We are women, sacrificing the way that women and mothers have sacrificed since the beginning of time. But I’m equally uncomfortable with the rhetoric that all mormon women are bitter because of the pressures brought to bear on us by our religion. I am not bitter. Yes, I struggle wtih certain things in my life and my religion, but I think it is folly to suggest that my experience is unique because I am Mormon. Last week I listened to a woman agonize over her treatment from her Catholic community when she divorced her abusive husband, the pain she felt at being shunned and being told point blank from her religious leader that the choices she made put her at odds with her God, and that she was therefore no longer welcome. But despite her pain, she continues to be Catholic. Because she believes it. And because she knows that despite her divorce, God still loves her.
Is it wrong to suggest that Mormon women are just normal women? Sometimes I feel like it is. But I feel like on the spectrum between SuperMom and bitter, oppressed, demanding the priesthood or I’ll go picket Temple Square apostate, most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
I am a Mormon woman. I like being Mormon, although certain things about the gospel perplex me, annoy me, and make me question stuff. I like going to church, even though sometimes people say really ghastly things about other people, TO other people, and, occasionally, to me. I like teaching my kids about Jesus, and I like having a relationship with God. I read scriptures with my family, and we try to pray together as a family before my son gets on his bus, except on the days when he can’t find his shoes and his socks don’t match and his friend is banging on the door, waiting for him to come on out already.
See? Pretty normal.




But Heather, being a martyr is so much more fun. If I’m a persecuted minority, don’t I get extra blessings?
Comment #1 by JustineMay 15th, 2008 at 5:44 pmDitto.
Comment #2 by staceyMay 15th, 2008 at 5:57 pmYou mean I’m supposed to know what color my floors are??
Comment #3 by Tracy MMay 15th, 2008 at 6:10 pmI thought you had to be my mother to be a martyr! I better not let this news leak out to the rest of the female population of my family… they might start considering themselves martyrs, too. Who knew, all it took was to be a Mormon?
Speaking of martyrdom, don’t you have to be dead to fit that definition? Technically speaking?
Comment #4 by SallyGirlMay 15th, 2008 at 6:33 pmYou mean my wife is supposed to know we have floors?
Comment #5 by RayMay 15th, 2008 at 6:34 pmOh the fun of being a mormon woman! I live in the middle of no where and drive 30 minutes down the interstate to go to church. But not before we feed the goat, horses, and wipe mud off of our shoes!!! We did have church in a metal building until about 5 years ago when the chapel was built. I think it’s great being a bit different, but too we are all the same. We all want the same thing, happy healthy children. So, horse poop on the floor is not normal? And goats are not supposed to watch tv with my kids?
Comment #6 by AndreaMay 15th, 2008 at 6:53 pmI like this post. Religious women of all varieties experience many of the same challenges - we really do have a lot in common with others.
Comment #7 by Nancy R.May 15th, 2008 at 7:29 pmSo true…
Comment #8 by Jamie JMay 15th, 2008 at 7:41 pmGreat post! So great, in fact, that I have nothing to add.
Comment #9 by Another Normal Mormon WomanMay 15th, 2008 at 8:21 pmI have heard some strange things said about mormon women too. but then I think about all the strange things I have heard mormon women say about women who aren’t mormon. It goes both ways. I have had the comment made to me several times “Oh, you’re mormon? I would have never thought that!” And I never know what to say or think about that statement. Is it good that I don’t fit in with their mold of how mormon women should act? Or is it bad? It depends on what their ideas are.
Speaking of…What are others’ ideas about us? What are our ideas about people of other religions? By marking ourselves “peculiar” do we exclude others unintentionally and make it even harder for people to relate to and get to know us as a people? Would it be better to not have an “us versus the world” mentality? But instead have an “us versus evil in the world” mentality? It is all very interesting and a great conversation to be starting.
Comment #10 by mellocelloMay 15th, 2008 at 8:29 pmummm. I definitely didn’t feel the same as other stay-at-home moms of other religions when I had my 4th child outside of Utah. Everywhere I went people stared at my big belly and my 3 kids and thought,”Wow, Mormons are crazy.” They were still my friends, and they loved their children in a lot of the same ways that I did, but there were HUGE differences. One difference was that they all kind of knew that their teenagers would drink and sleep around and they were preparing themselves mentally for that stage in their lives. I wanted to tell them that it doesn’t HAVE to be that way (I know, I know, even Mormon teenagers party and sleep around, but we at least expect them not to and a lot of them don’t). Anyway, yes, there are lots of similarities, but I definitely felt peculiar, and I was just fine with that.
Also, I don’t feel like a martyr one bit. I have always felt like each child was a choice and going to church every Sunday was a choice, and I have exactly the kind of life I have always wanted. We might struggle from day to day, but overall we are VERY happy.
Comment #11 by AWFMay 15th, 2008 at 8:33 pmwoah. I didn’t realize how many questions I was asking. No pressure, all. Just feeling a little introspective, I guess.
Comment #12 by mellocelloMay 15th, 2008 at 8:33 pmI found my floor briefly this morning but have already lost it again. I think it’s still there, though, cause none of the crap has fallen to the basement.
Comment #13 by mMay 15th, 2008 at 8:57 pmOk - non mormon lurker here jumping in. I love you gals and was introduced to what it means to be a Mormon from a wonderful college roommate. I respect Mormonism but, at the end of the day, it was not the right personal choice for me. However, AWF, I take offense at you saying that nonmormon women “knew their teenagers would drink and sleep around.” While we know that our children are faced with many many many challenges in this world (none of which are different from the challenges your children face) we try to raise children who will be able to turn away from those temptations based on the teachings/church/spirituality of the family. I realize you are likely drawing from your experiences based on a specific group of women in a specific city - and in that case you may be right - but to paint that same stereotype with a broad brush over all non mormon women is equivelent to the stereotypes that are painted on Mormons which, based on Heather’s thoughts, is not necessarily true for every single Mormon woman.
Comment #14 by JELMay 15th, 2008 at 9:03 pmI like being normal, imperfections and all. I’d take that any day over being a martyr…
Comment #15 by AndiMay 15th, 2008 at 9:15 pmCan someone explain the brainwashing argument to me? I just don’t get it. Sure we’re taught things as children (those of us who grew up in the church) and if we’re here (reading MMW) then we probably still believe those things but, well, as a kid I was also taught that the earth was round and crazy ol’ me, I continue to believe it.
Comment #16 by Alison WonderlandMay 15th, 2008 at 9:31 pmAnd it’s not like we were taught in this unusual way. I went to sacrament meeting and my catholic friend (Who loves this website btw, hi!) went to mass. I went to primary, she went to Sunday school. I got baptized she took first communion. I was taught not to have premarital sex, she was taught not to have premarital sex. How is it that I’m brainwashed and she’s not? Because there are more Catholics around than there are Mormons?
There are certainly differences in the mindset of the members between the two churches as AWF pointed out. So is it that Mormons (those who consider themselves Mormons anyway) tend to be more active? (Broad generalization I know, but there are tons of Catholics out there who call themselves Catholic who only attend on Easter and Christmas. I think most Mormons who don’t attend regularly don’t really identify themselves as LDS. Maybe I’m wrong.) Is is that the disciplinary action for disobedience is harsher for us (I don’t think that most other religions excommunicate as often as we do, nor for the offenses that we do) than it is for them?
I really don’t get it.
This morning I was at Curves, and a lady there was explaining that last week she and her husband had been at a conference for their volunteer work as addiction recovery counselors for their church (Episcopalian). I thought it was interesting because she was talking about how “every family is touched by addiction, but no one is willing to admit it”. It sounded like something I’ve heard many Mormons say.
Comment #17 by FoxyJMay 15th, 2008 at 9:58 pmWait. What if I don’t want to be normal?! Holy crap, now I gotta re-think this whole thing again…
Comment #18 by cherylMay 15th, 2008 at 10:04 pmThis was a great post, Heather. I don’t really have anything to add, because I think you covered all the bases. We are more alike than we are different. We just focus on the differences way too much, sometimes using them to make ourselves feel better, sometimes using them to make us feel unique. It’s a very polarizing world view.
Comment #19 by SueMay 15th, 2008 at 11:21 pmYou don’t have to be born into the church to be brainwashed. My family of origin will tell you all about how the missionaries brain-washed me in six short lessons.
Comment #20 by JamiMay 16th, 2008 at 12:50 amThis made me think of the new website out about/by/for Mormon Women that attempts to make a place where LDS women can combine and share their faith in a more real way. It’s a wonderful site to collect the testimonies and real-life experiences of LDS women, a chance to show the world that not all of us are brainwashed and that even though we might have weeping-in-the-night moments, we also have singing-with-joy moments.
Comment #21 by SilverRainMay 16th, 2008 at 3:40 amI think anyone who wants to share a story or any thoughts on gospel topics there is more than welcome. It’s not exactly a blog, more of a compendium resource site. At the very least, go and check it out. From what I can tell, it’s not supposed to be only a chocolate-covered faith-promoting story collection, but a nitty-gritty trenches “this is who we are” sort of site. (Incidentally, be sure to listen the theme song by Tammy Simister Robinson, it is aMAZing and encapsulates the site’s expressed purpose perfectly.)
We are all one. That is why we are brothers and sisters. Inside, we are all God’s children, trying our best to survive. We have different ideas of what that means. I live in a heavily Catholic area. I grew up Catholic and went to 12 years of parochial school. I am a Mormon. I am you and you are me.
I love your post, Heather. I am abnormal, but that has nothing to do with my religion
Comment #22 by annahannahMay 16th, 2008 at 6:48 amMartyr Mormon women kind of bug me. Basically they are co dependent with someone and it just grates on my nerves to listen to someone living that way.
I don’t think my religion makes my life harder at all, I still do what I do, live with the imperfections that I have and deal with it.
I do have to say, the typical mormon women in utah is more apt to say what bugs JEL. I tell you it’s a Utah thing, You escape Utah and your more apt to realize that there is a huge amount of people following different faith’s and such that expect greater things of there children than booze and drugs and sex. Sometimes I think though too, that it’s partially those in Utah that are non mormon/apostate and blame EVERYTHING on mormons that puts utah mormons on the defensive. “All the laws are mormon’s fault ect…” again it takes leaving Utah to realize that smoking laws are not mormon’s fault, drinking laws are not mormon’s fault, abortion laws are not mormon’s fault. Every state has them, but no other state has a religion to blame them on. I live in Missouri and abortion is a big deal here, the lengths people go to, to stop abortions just amazes me and few do it in the name of a certain religion, but just a more general feeling.
Comment #23 by SarahMay 16th, 2008 at 7:03 amOkay, now that I have gotten some sleep and have left the sarcasm behind, I wanted to be serious about your post, Heather.
Thank you.
I am so much in the middle, and I’m trying the best that I can. Some days I feel oppressed, and other days I feel like a martyr. Other days, I’m depressed, but on most days? I’m very, very happy. I’m content and at peace, and then another torrent of cruddy random things will be thrown at me and I have to start all over again. Health issues, children issues, money issues, neighbor issues…and you are absolutely right. It’s not unique to me because I am a Mormon! It’s because I am human.
I want to second SilverRain, though, about the new Mormon Women website. It’s the perfect place for Mormon women to share their stories about life (the good, the bad, the ugly) and their testimonies without fear of being shot down or having to debate. Seriously, go check it out. It’s great!
And thank you, again, Heather, for reminding me that I’m normal. I guess that’s okay.
Comment #24 by cherylMay 16th, 2008 at 7:05 amSee, I just don’t listen to people, and then none of that stuff matters.
Comment #25 by Susan MMay 16th, 2008 at 7:14 amWhile I was a missionary, a woman talked to us a little on her doorstep. She asked my companion and me what we would do when our missions were done. I said, “Oh, we’ll go home and be normal people.”
“Normal Mormons,” she said and closed the door.
Comment #26 by ResearcherMay 16th, 2008 at 7:50 am“I like being Mormon, although certain things about the gospel perplex me, annoy me, and make me question stuff.”
I can understand the gospel being perplexing. Annoying? Makes you question…what stuff? I think there may be a separation missing here between gospel and church institution. Might you say you find some things about the church annoying, therefore causing you to question the church or to have deeper questions about the gospel?
My point is that we sometimes forget to separate the church from the gospel when we talk about these things, and they are not the same. I doubt you meant you find the gospel annoying, but maybe you did. I just wanted to ask for clarification.
Comment #27 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 7:57 amOne of the biggest martyrs I know is a non-Mormon woman. You can find them in every religion. There are just people out there who like attention and assume everything in the universe rotates around them.
I think I am pretty normal. Of course, each of us probably has our own definition of normal!
Comment #28 by LisaCMay 16th, 2008 at 8:02 amHeather,
Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody in there? Just post if you can hear me…
I’m waiting for an answer and, more importantly, a Lost post. Let’s get a move on, girly!
Comment #29 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 8:55 amsol -
Her baby is sick. She’ll get here, eventually.
I think all women tend to be martyrs at times, I don’t think it’s really a Mormon thing.
Comment #30 by The WizMay 16th, 2008 at 9:01 amSusan M is my hero.
Comment #31 by Tracy MMay 16th, 2008 at 9:03 amDitto what the wiz said. Have you ever read anything about Jewish mothers? Being a martyr has nothing to do with religion. Okay, that was totally an ironic comment. But the point is that, any women, regardless of feelings about God, can feel martyrish about being a mom.
Comment #32 by TiffanyMay 16th, 2008 at 9:14 ammartyrish about being a mom, doesn’t bother me. Martyrish about being a spouse, really does.
Those that think being a mormon wife means letting your DH treat you like crap, now that totally bugs me.
Comment #33 by SarahMay 16th, 2008 at 9:22 amAWF & JEL: about the comment of how AWF’s friends seemed to expect that their teenagers would just sleep around and drink etc… I agree with JEL that perhaps that was too big of a generality. But in my experiences it has seemed that those who have religious beliefs at least cling to the hope that their children will make wise choices where those I have known w/o specific belief systems seem to be more the type who are resigned that their children will likely make those choices and are just bracing themselves for it. Again, certainly not everyone is this way but in my personal experience some are.
Comment #34 by ejMay 16th, 2008 at 9:26 amAnd at the risk of giving TMI ~ if I wouldn’t have had a belief that living the Gospel would bring me greater happiness than participating in what so many others were doing, I would have been a TOTAL floozie…So if I was in fact brainwashed, I would have to say it was brainwashing at it’s finest
ej,
Let’s not confuse being non-LDS with being w/o specific beliefs.
Comment #35 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 9:28 amI’m not. That would be why I said those who have ‘religious beliefs’ meaning any at all and those ‘w/o them’.
Comment #36 by ejMay 16th, 2008 at 9:30 amI think the fact that we are deemed normal is what makes us all the more peculiar…this goes for all religious women and not just mormon women. More and more the world we live in tries to be extreme and one up each other…being normal is what makes us peculiar. This post enlightened into thoughts I never had before regarding being a Mormon martyr…guess I never thought of it that way or heard it….sad that someone would think that about themselves…there’s far too much to get done in a day than to ddem oneself a martyr and live each day like that.
Comment #37 by EricaMay 16th, 2008 at 9:32 amYes, I see that now.
As an aside, what constitutes not having a specific belief? Just wondering, because I have friends who are non-religious and have very specific beliefs. Just curious, not arguing.
Comment #38 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am(again, the non mormon gal here) - Sarah, my husband is actually born and raised Salt Lake City (a jewish kid nonetheless) and has nothing but great things to say about the Mormons he grew up with and went to school with. His father practiced pediatric medicine at Children’s Hospital and his parents still live in SLC so obviously love it. They don’t for an instance blame “the mormons” for what’s going on in their state. Obviously this is just one instance in thousands of non mormons in Utah but since Heather was posting about stereotypes I was frustrated that stereotypes about non mormons were being thrown around since, as someone else said, we really are all brothers and sisters in God’s (extended) family.
My husband argues that Utah and Salt Lake City have a CNN problem because the only time the outside world hears about either (aside from the 02 Olympics) is from some wierdo who has kidnapped a poor child or some fundamentalist group who has gone off the deep end (the John Kraukaurer book). Right or wrong, there’s usually some connection back to religion that gives those outside of Utah who don’t have experience with/relationships with Mormons and misunderstanding about the religion. His feeling was that Mitt Romney was a great way to help show the world how “normal” Mormons really are and, like most others in this country, are centered in their faith and simply want the best for their children.
Comment #39 by JELMay 16th, 2008 at 9:40 amI think ‘belief systems’ are when you have a set of standards that you live by everyday- or refer to when a decision arises. I think those without specific beliefs in mind (i.e. my sisters) just live there lives day to day and don’t choose what they will or won’t do before hand, just decide on a case by case basis.
Comment #40 by ejMay 16th, 2008 at 9:45 amej,
Comment #41 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 10:04 amI can agree with that, maybe. Your original comment alluded to only two choices: Religious or without specific beliefs. I just wanted to be sure there were more options available. Also, while I cannot speak for your sisters, I have yet to meet a person who is devoid of specific beliefs when it comes down to it. As for teenagers drinking and or having sex (which is the issue that started this portion of the thread), just because someone sees it as bound to happen doesn’t mean they don’t have specific beliefs about those things. They just believe differently.
Goodness Sol. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You may have missed your calling in life as a trial lawyer.
(smiley)
(I guess there’s still time.)
Comment #42 by ResearcherMay 16th, 2008 at 10:08 amYes, a call for clarity is a shameful thing when we are in the middle of wondering why people generalize about us (as we sit and generalize about others).
Slinking back to male dominated blogs now…
Comment #43 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 10:12 amWhoops. I forget that some people see lawyers as bad. I’m thinking in terms of Perry Mason/ No insult intended. My dream career was working as a lawyer for a city government on planning issues. Won’t happen any time soon.
I’ve been insulting people right and left here on MMW. I evidently need to take a break from blogging and go generalize about all my neighbors… (just kidding)
Comment #44 by ResearcherMay 16th, 2008 at 10:33 amJEL-
I’m so sorry that my comment caused offense. I truly didn’t mean for it to. Of course that was about one specific group of women. They were all very religious and belonged to a Christian community church that they were very active in. It was a small community, and the Mormons and this other group of Christian women were all good friends. On regular occasions the other women would say things like, “Well, we know our kids are going to party when they’re teenagers, so why not be the “cool” parents who help them drink responsibly so they don’t sneak around behind our backs?”
But I have lived in 5 different states and 3 different countries, and I have always had people think that Mormons were peculiar for saying NO premarital sex, not just as teenagers, but truly none before marriage. I think that in society it is just acceptable to sleep together before marriage, and Mormons are one of the few groups who still promote whole heartedly the idea of complete abstinence before marriage. I am not even saying that I think that it is horrible for the 98% of the US population who has a different belief system than mine in this regard, but I do think that it is a major difference, and I do think that it affects the expectations that people have for their children. I have always been grateful for my friends with different beliefs who still accepted me, even though they thought that I was the weirdest person they had ever met because I had never tasted alcohol and had practiced complete abstinence before marriage. And some of them were amazed and shocked that a religion could promote those ideas with any amount of success.
Enough said. I just wanted to clarify and apologize.
Comment #45 by AWFMay 16th, 2008 at 10:43 amAlso, on a totally different subject, I think that the “Mormon women” comments stereotype a different generation a lot better. I don’t sew, have a vegetable garden, do canning, all while having a baby every 2 years. Someday I would love to do all of those things (not have a baby every two years though), but I would definitely feel like a martyr if I felt like I HAD to do those things to be a good Mormon woman. Once again, that comment comes from growing up in a predominantly LDS community where most women in my mother’s peer group really did all of those things. Amazing. But I’m glad it’s not me.
Comment #46 by AWFMay 16th, 2008 at 10:48 amsol-
Little Sister is sick–sorry, no Lost post today. I’ll answer your questions in a little while, too. Gotta go tend to an incredibly fussy child….
Comment #47 by Heather O.May 16th, 2008 at 10:54 amI often hear disaffected (and sometimes active! LOL) LDS women moaning about Mormon men and how they’re this or that or the other. And I am always very quick to point out that it’s not just Mormon men who are twits. All men are twits.
I think the same can be said of women…on occasion. We’re all the same…all have the same parent after all.
Comment #48 by ChrissieMay 16th, 2008 at 11:04 amI know men that aren’t twits. Lots. But I guess it was supposed to be funny, right?
Comment #49 by mellocelloMay 16th, 2008 at 11:37 amDitto comment #49. I hope that this doesn’t turn into a men-bashing thread.
Comment #50 by Rachel WMay 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am#46
Speaking of stereotypical women’s roles, you might like this.
http://stuporofthought.wordpress.com/
Comment #51 by solMay 16th, 2008 at 12:02 pmsol-
that was awesome. you posed some great questions. I’m not sure I have any answers to them personally, but it’s food for thought, and I will be thinking about the things you mentioned for awhile.
Good for you for standing up to the man who said those things. Sometimes it’s hardest to stand up to something when it’s not outright sexist to some people, but still vaugely wrong. Kudos!
Comment #52 by mellocelloMay 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pmMost people I know knew their spouse prior to marriage. They saw how they acted during stress, fights, family events, holidays, and how they felt about sports, sex, finances, debt, SAHMs, ambition, religion, changing diapers and “roles”, etc.. And they chose them anyway.
If someone spends like a sailor on leave while dating, there is a pattern there. If someone has a weak stomach picking up the dog crap on a walk, diapers are not going to be a joy. If a person is selfish or demeaning during the dating, chances are they will be more so during marriage.
Core values and character rarely change after marriage. Habits, idiosyncrasies, health challenges, etc. are usually the same. Sometimes things *do* change, however that’s a low percentage. Most of the time marriage brings out the more relaxed nature, not the opposite. This is why it is a good idea to be mature before making the commitment.
I think too many times we complain about our spouses instead of our poor choice. We picked him, we said yes. If we allow anyone to walk all over us it has nothing to do with religion or gender, it is our own inability to say “STOP DOING THAT!”.
I have yet to sit in a RS (or otherwise) lesson where we have been instructed to take abuse. There are lesson where we have been instructed to “submit” to our husbands. People forget there are two meanings to this word, one is to “give”, meaning to give or offer something for a decision to be made by others:
“You must submit your application before January 1st.” or
“The developers submitted building plans to the council for approval.”
Am I demeaned if I submit my ideas to my husband before he makes a final decision? No. In fact, according to the bible, I am commanded to give him my ideas. I look at it as the whole -two heads being better than one- idea. This doesn’t make me subservient, it means he has been commanded to listen to my opinion.
I get crazy when I hear about all or most of one gender or another being jerks. I think we just need to weed out the dorks and choose better.
Comment #53 by s'meeMay 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pmWell I’m late to the party, but I just wanted to say how I much I enjoyed this post.
I really don’t think we are all that different from other moms (especially other moms who live their religion). The doctrines of our faiths may differ, but the in-and-out of daily living and raising children to believe in God and act accordingly resonates for many woman across many religions.
Comment #54 by rynellMay 17th, 2008 at 9:20 pmAwhile back I lurked quite a bit on some homeschooling blogs for Catholic moms, and I was amazed how similar they were to LDS women. Religious doctrines were different, but I felt the the role of their church in their lives very much mirrored my relationship with my religion. It was fascinating to read their thoughts. They were fantastic mothers as well, and I felt like I could learn a lot from them.
Comment #55 by eljeeMay 17th, 2008 at 9:46 pmJEL-
I love your guts. You know that, right? Thanks for being here.
sol (if you’re still around…)
The 3 hour block drives me batty. The fact that our new EQ president had to shave his beard for our military SP makes me roll my eyes (although he is a rockin’ SP, despite his need for clean shaven local leaders), and I sometimes have a hard time with some of the temple stuff. Not the ones you would expect, like the language that some feel dismiss woman, but the idea that MY actions affects SOMEBODY else’s salvation makes me scratch my head and say, “Huh?”
But that’s neither here nor there….
Comment #56 by Heather O.May 18th, 2008 at 7:08 pmHeather,
So, yeah, some things about the church are quacky. Some things about the gospel are perplexing. I was just wondering if you found the actual gospel annoying, which it doesn’t sound like it. I guess I just feel like it’s important to separate church institution (which is temporal) from the gospel (which is eternal). Thanks for answering. How’s baby?
Comment #57 by solMay 19th, 2008 at 4:10 pmYou’re right sol, it is very important to separate church institution with gospel principles. Thanks for making me clarify. Baby’s good–thanks for asking.
Comment #58 by Heather O.May 19th, 2008 at 4:31 pmAmen, Sista! Well said.
Comment #59 by JennnyMay 20th, 2008 at 2:52 pmYou mentioned the divorced catholic woman who had been so viciously been scolded by the leaders of her church, yet she still believed because she knew God loved her. I am in a similar boat, yet I am Mormon.
Gossip was spread in my ward about me by the Relief Society President who was upset with me because she didn’t like the activity that my activity committee had organized. It got to the point where I didn’t feel welcome at church, and I quit going for a time (hoping that my absence would quell the rumors, and because it was impossible to feel the spirit with the hostile attitude generated towards me). When I tried to talk to my bishop and ask if we could have a meeting to get it resolved, he treated me as though I was scum on the bottom of his shoe. After months, he finally agreed to a meeting where he called in the entire RS presidency, and the Bishopric. I had been told repeatedly that I was in the wrong because this sister went to church every Sunday and partook of the sacrament. All I was asking for was forgiveness and to be given the chance to answer to what I was being charged with. I had no reservations about forgiving her, I just wanted it to be resolved so that I would feel welcome at church again. He placed a recorder on his desk and I was placed on trial with one woman confronting me immediately with such viciousness and hate that I had never witnessed before. Since the spirit was not present, I left the meeting. The bishopric then realized what had been happening, and counseled the bishop to cease with his imp unitive attitude towards me. They rallied around me, and loved me. The exact words of the ward clerk was “We as leaders of the Church have failed her”
My 14 year old son was my rock through it all. He begged me to come to church. His sweet testimony had softened my heart and given me the courage to return.
My son was scheduled to go to EFY this week. He is going through vocal training and is working with his instructor on his voice, presence and appearance. One of his trademarks is a well groomed longer hairstyle (imagine a teen heart throb above his collar, but hangs slightly over his face and ears). It is not extreme, and he looks great (he is the object of many “crushes” of the girls in our ward). After three days at EFY, one of the counselors pulled him away from the other youth and told him he was no longer welcome at EFY because of his hair. He told him that “People with long hair have attitudes, so if I see a person with an attitude I tell them to just cut their hair.”
My son is crushed. He has never encountered such bigotry and hate before in his life. He now tells me that he hates the church and never wants to return. His countenance has changed drastically over the past few days. I can see that his testimony was shattered by the event. My own testimony has been incredibly shaken. I have asked the question many times, “How can this church be true when leaders are allowed to act with such ignorance?” The answer is simple. God does not interfere with free will, and leaders are often misled into believing all of their actions are right and justified if they partake of the sacrament each week. Satan is using that weakness right now and my family is suffering a great deal as the result. I know that I have a divine purpose, as do my children, and that the Savior loves us and knows us personally. I know that the gospel is true, the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, and that President Monson is a true and living prophet. I only wish that somehow I could reach my son so that he could know this as well. My heart is broken at the loss of his sweet testimony.
The actions and words of active members, especially leaders, are the #1 cause of members falling away from the church. The loss of one soul is greater than the gain of millions.
Comment #60 by MykJune 13th, 2008 at 9:21 amI’m so, so sorry Myk.
I hope your son can prevail over the ignorant actions of the few and built up his tesimony again. There are a lot of us in the blogernacle that been in your (or his) shoes. Hang in there.
Comment #61 by Tracy MJune 13th, 2008 at 9:46 amMYK-
Ditto to what Tracy said. Sometimes people just don’t get it. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
Comment #62 by Heather O.June 13th, 2008 at 9:53 amThank you Tracy. He is such a good kid. As a Mom, I couldn’t wish for a child to be any greater. Until this happened, he had the strongest testimony of everyone in my family.
My husband has struggled with the church for years, and my oldest has said that he doesn’t believe in religion at all because people do hateful things in the name of religion (he had an encounter a few years back where some of the boys in his quorum stole from us, and he felt as though he was the outcast while his dad was deployed to the Middle East). It is my 14 year old who often softens the heart of my 16 year old.
My family has struggled so much, and I have prayed for years for my kids to have testimonies, and for my husband to seek a temple recommend again (it has been over 13 years). My son was our rock, and I don’t know how this will effect the testimonies of my husband and my other children now. This almost feels like Satan has just said “checkmate”.
The sad thing, I had just issued a “challenge” to my husband to get his recommend before all of this happened. He was going to do it, but now he is considering asking that his name be removed from the church records. My daughter was supposed to be baptized next month, and he has asked to halt that as well.
Comment #63 by MykJune 13th, 2008 at 10:09 amMyk- If I had one piece of advice, it would actually be a question. If you were ready to have your daughter baptized, to have your husband get his TR back- do the actions of a small few ignorant folks change the faith that made you want to do those things?
The thing is, the Gospel is true. The Church is just a church. I know people would consider me sacreligeous for saying that, but from my point of view, it’s true. The Church is an organization run by human beings- they may be inspired, and they may be great- but we are all fallen humans, we all have feet of clay. The Church is an organization of people who love and beleive in the GOSPEL of Christ- to as many varying degrees as there are colors. Please know you are not alone in your struggle- I’m an adult convert, and it took me a while to sort out that I didn’t need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I hope this helps. There are a lot of blogs run by faithful mormons who wrestle with these types of things… Maybe some of them can help, too. If you click on the blue button on our sidebar that says “Mormon Archipelago” it will take you to a fairly substantial list of blogs run by some pretty tolerant members.
I might also specifically suggest Susan M’s blog, Strage Pulse. She has two teenage boys, both with beautiful long hair, and they have found a ballance in their family. Good luck, and feel free to email any of us- our name@mormonmommywars dot com.
Comment #64 by Tracy MJune 13th, 2008 at 12:02 pmTracy,
You are right. The actions of these few ignorant people should not interfere. If it was left up to me, then my husband would get his TR, and my daughter would be baptized without question. My husband on the other hand is more difficult to convince of that issue. I guess that is my struggle now. How do I convince my husband and my boys that the actions of a few do not change the gospel and the love of our Savior? I have been praying about it a lot. I was inspired to ask my son to read “The Peacegiver” when I awoke this morning. While he says he isn’t sure if he wants to read it, he has been carrying it around with him ever since. I am not sure that he has opened it, but I do see that his heart was softened. I am sorry that I didn’t reply to you last night. The mood in my home was so low and depressing that I took him to go and get his hair styled (still isn’t abiding by the regulations), I even gave in and let him get black streaks in his beautiful blonde hair LOL (just a few on the under side that barely peak out). Then I took all of my kids out to eat and to the movie.
The YM president and all the Teachers and Priests are coming over to my house tonight for an activity (Halo tournament). The YM president is saddened over what happened and wants to do anything that he can to help my son.
The leader of EFY talked to my son last night. I am not sure why he did, because he was even colder than before. He told my son that if Christ were there at EFY, He would have sent my son away as well. One good thing that came out of this, my 16 year old stood up to my 14 year old and told him that these few people do not change the gospel, that it is true and these people were simply ignorant. My son who I feared had no testimony at all, shared his testimony with his brother who is struggling.
Hopefully by the time my husband returns from out of the country next week, his heart will be softened as well. If this event doesn’t break us, it will make us stronger.
Comment #65 by MykJune 14th, 2008 at 6:32 amCheiko Okasaki’s son’s had long hair while she was serving in the mission field when her husband was a mission president. They got some flack for it, and she just said, “It’s just hair. We’re pleased they are expressing themselves in a rather harmless and temporary manner”. Seriously, it’s just hair. I wouldn’t give it a second thought. That EFY counselor is WAY out of line.
Comment #66 by Heather O.June 14th, 2008 at 6:52 amYeah, that EFY councelor was so far over the line, the line was a speck. Seriously. Wrong. I’ll take Cheiko over some random wrong dude, any day!
Prayers with your and your family, Myk
Comment #67 by Tracy MJune 14th, 2008 at 8:44 amI don’t really know how I ended up on this old blog at 2am, but here I am.
I just wanted to comment on the EFY incident. I spent 5 weeks as an EFY counselor last summer and intend on returning this coming summer. Let me tell you, enforcing the dress and appearance standards is an absolute nightmare. A big part of the problem is that the instructions (at least last summer) referred you to the For Strength of Youth Pamphlet which is incredibly vague. However, in order to maintain consistency and fairness, more specific rules are often instituted right before or during the week. This leaves youth breaking rules they didn’t even know existed! I had problems every single week with girls who brought skirts to wear that are reasonably modest (it wouldn’t catch my attention as being too short if I saw them in church), but that they couldn’t actually wear at EFY.
Anyway, my point is just that the dress and appearance standards at EFY can be incredibly tricky and can leave both counselors and youth in sticky and uncomfortable situations. Before I read the entire account of what the EFY counselor did I was preparing to defend him, knowing how it feels to have about 50 pairs of adolescent eyes rolled at you in a single week, but I agree that what he did was entirely out of line. First of all, who waits until the middle of the week to say something like that? Unless your son has super human hair that grows an inch in two days, that is. And his comment about people with long hair having attitudes was just…stupid?
Comment #68 by Juliet M.October 24th, 2009 at 2:07 am