By Melissa Mc
I’m not sure what a stereotypical Mormon is, or not, but I don’t think I’m one of them.
I’m not from Utah.
I did not go to BYU.
I didn’t get married until I was in my 30s.
My husband’s produces professional theatre that some members may or may not approve of.
I come from a long line of Mormon Democrats (all 10 of us).
Other than those characteristics, I’m fairly normal Mormon: temple recommend carrying, scripture reading, testimony bearing, sacrament taking, tithe paying, leader supporting, member.
So, it’s with that back ground, that I was surprised by the the following conversation I had with a ward friend:
Me: I really feel like we’ve been ostracized over the past year. I’m not sure why – or if we’ve done something wrong – but I feel like people avoid us.
Them: I think you all have been “mislabeled.”
Huh?
Not, “No, I think you are exaggerating,” or “Really, why would you think that, I haven’t noticed anything?”
Mislabeled? What have we done to deserve a LABEL, let alone that label being wrong? Why is my “ward family” giving our family a label in the first place?
Because we are different?
Don’t we show up every Sunday?
Don’t we fulfill our callings?
Don’t we serve to the best of our ability?
Because of the nature of the conversation, I wasn’t able to ask this acquaintance what label we had acquired – I’m sure it wasn’t “Caffeine Free” or “All Natural/Certified Organic.” And I was so stunned by the response that I wanted to leave immediately, but it left me wondering: How quick are we to judge other members? Have you ever been labeled?
Going forward, I think I’m going to start carrying a sign that says – “The Mc family – maybe hazardous to your health.” That should give them something to talk about.
Hey, at least she gave you an answer, instead of brushing you off with “you’re exaggerating.” If you feel ostracized, that’s a real feeling, and it’s nice to have it validated. At least you both know something’s up, and nobody’s trying to brush it under the rug.
As to what it actually means, I have no idea. Sounds like further conversations are in order.
And yes, I’ve been labeled. We all have, at some point, I would imagine. I have a story about actually being introduced with the label, but I don’t really want to share it online. I could msg you, though.
Comment #1 by The WizDecember 18th, 2009 at 9:55 pmGood point. But it really sucks to know I’m right.
Comment #2 by Melissa McDecember 18th, 2009 at 9:59 pmI guess I label my kids too.
I hate that kind of crap. I’m sorry. I’m glad you were able get an answer, and when you have the chance, I hope you can ask for an explanation.
Lately I want to wear a sign around my neck too. Maybe it’s the human OCD to categorize and sort, and weed out the different ones. Either way it sucks.
You can be in my group. I really like you.
Comment #3 by Tracy MDecember 18th, 2009 at 10:13 pmPerhaps she didn’t quite mean it the way it came out. I’ve done that before…meaning to say one thing but it coming out all wrong.
Comment #4 by Jill ShelleyDecember 18th, 2009 at 10:48 pmI feel ostracized in my ward, too. While I’m not in a heavily LDS area, I live in a ward that has high student turnover: medical students, dental students, law students, and medical residents. My husband and I are the same age as a lot of the students, and we moved here in the Summer, with a huge group of students. Naturally, each group tends to flock together. Well, we’re not students. We’re “real” people, as a friend once referred to us. My husband has a job here, and of the -ites in the ward, we are permanites. The only other permanites are old enough to be our parents.
I am a very social person, and am friendly with just about everyone in the ward. However, I read all their blogs and see pictures and write-ups on multiple blogs about parties — Halloween, Thanksgiving, Ugly Christmas Sweater, you name it — that had upwards of 25 people in attendance, and not once have my husband and I been invited. My husband is introverted and admittedly not interested in getting to know “Utah people” but I more than compensate for his hermit-ness.
I don’t know what label we wear either, but I think it must say “My feet stink when I take my shoes off at your house.”
Comment #5 by JanelleDecember 18th, 2009 at 11:05 pmWow…I would have asked what she meant by that. Ask her another time what she meant by mislabeling.
Comment #6 by Lisa SDecember 19th, 2009 at 12:10 amYes, I’ve been labeled & then some.
I’m a Mormon oxymoron, Rock star drinking, boob job considering, tattooed Primary President. It’s true, ask my bishop.
I got my tattoo while still a BYU student (back before Pres. Hinckley said it was a no no). Some of my roommates were sure I was going to hell. I showed them by submitting my mission papers and having the spiritual experience of a lifetime.
We, all of us Mormons, need to allow each other the space to be ourselves, whatever that may be, while still loving Christ, growing spiritually and trying not to judge each other. It’s hard, yes, but we can still keep trying.
Comment #7 by Terresa WellbornDecember 19th, 2009 at 1:33 amJust last night we were introduced at a friends “Ugly Sweater Party” that we were the “liberal” couple. Just ’cause we voted Obama. Hmph. It didn’t help that I talked about some story I heard on NPR and then admitted to seeing “Precious.” It didn’t help matters much.
Fortunately, Heavenly Father doesn’t seem to care.
Comment #8 by KatieDecember 19th, 2009 at 7:07 amI’m so sorry to hear that. Wow. You guys saved my life in LR, wish I could do the same for you.
Comment #9 by sylviaDecember 19th, 2009 at 8:16 amI’m judged and labeled as a “Utah” Mormon because my husband’s family is from the South. When we first met they had a skewed vision of how I would act. I don’t get it. I HATE that I have to defend myself just because we live here and I grew up here. Yes things are a little different but that is because there are naturally more mormons in Utah then in the Southern States. However, that statistic is slowly decreasing.
Comment #10 by HeidiDecember 19th, 2009 at 8:28 amLike you said, Don’t we all belong to the same church, have the same beliefs, and have the same testimonies of the truths of this gospel?
I hate it how everytime I say anything I get, “That’s because you live in Utah” or “What’s up with you Utahns?” Everything is perfect outside of Utah apparently and they can throw that cop-out answer in my face.
Sorry, this is a very touchy subject for me and I get defensive.
Heidi, my aunt used to always tell her sons that whatever they did, they were NOT to marry girls from Utah. Well, both of my cousins did exactly that. One of the girl’s families did not want her marrying my cousin because he was NOT from their southern Utah community. Well, my aunt now ADORES both her daughters-in-law and thinks they are perfect for her boys. She lets everyone know how great she thinks they are! It was a great lesson for her about judging. The girl’s family came around too.
Comment #11 by FairchildDecember 19th, 2009 at 8:58 amHey, you voted for Hillary Clinton, and I still like you.
Comment #12 by Heather O.December 19th, 2009 at 9:25 amWe label because we want everyone to fit in this perfect little box of Mormonism that consists of: no swearing, no drinking, no tea, no coffee (of any kind even ice cream, or tiramisu which I eat all the time and love completely!) no tattoo’s, no liberals, no question askers, no pot stirrers (me again), no bold women, no bold women that are happy with themselves (me again), no colored hair, no complaining…and on.
About 6 years ago my neighbor and I became vt partners. She was telling me that the RS president asked her if we got along. She said yes, and then asked why. The RS president told her, and then she related to me, that not everyone likes me or gets along with me. I was dumbfounded, and struck with a huge lump in my throat. I almost started bawling right then, made up some quick excuse to leave and then went home and cried. What the crap? Guess I’m that obnoxious that people just don’t like me. But now, who gives a crap! I don’t have time to waste on poor shallow people that want to label me as… well,… what ever they want to label me as.
Now, in this current ward, apparently I am in a ‘click’, which is so incredibly lame. Do other women have friends? Do they hang out with those friends? Do they go and do things with those friends? Ya, well me too. Just so happens that my friends are in my ward… I could seriously go on about this one, but lets just say it bugs me that there are people that feel so little about themselves that they have to make others feel that way too.
pfff….. just irritates me! Labels are dumb!
Comment #13 by SunshineDecember 19th, 2009 at 10:30 amHugs to you. I liked what someone else said, Heavenly Father doesn’t label us, he loves us!
I would certainly ask her more questions, maybe you misunderstood. If not, I would be curious, what are the labels?
I am sure that in my ward people think I am not a “normal” mormon. I am a convert, I love birth with hypnosis of all things, I don’t feel guilt (unless I do something wrong)
But I love being different, if they don’t like it, it is their loss!
Comment #14 by Enjoy BirthDecember 19th, 2009 at 11:27 amWow. It’s amazing what a can of worms can be opened. Guess we’re not all ready for translation yet. I need to add this. I’m sorry that some of you have been judged harshly but thank you so much for sharing. I feel like my family is ostracized & not wanted so much that I hate my ward. I started out ready to love & be loved & now 2 1/2 yrs later if we can’t figure out a way to move soon I’m afraid that I’ll go inactive which isn’t what I want for me or my family. I just can’t take it anymore. The really sad thing is that when I go visit my parents I feel like I’ve come home & yet, most of the families that were there while I was growing up are gone now. Just weird.
Comment #15 by Sues2u2December 19th, 2009 at 11:42 amMy “friend” happens to be a priesthood leader with his thumb on the pulse of the ward, if you get my drift. So, he obviously KNOWS something we don’t.
Terresa: After a few years of inactivity, I moved to Wash DC for my first real job out of college — the first thing I did was find my new ward. When RS was over, the RS president was standing at the back door greeting women as they left, as I approached her I noticed something that nearly knocked my flat — A NOSE RING!! My RS president had a nose ring! She was also in her early 30s and single. It was one of those “tender mercies” Elder Bednar described that God gives to us. He knew my struggles as a single sister and knew I needed a RS President with a nose ring. She is still one of my dearest friends.
Heather: Yeah, I voted for her long before it was VOGUE to do so! Besides, she lived in AR, so she can’t be that bad.
Sunshine: loved your comments. Thank you. I need to be myself, and let the chips fall where they may. But would also like for people to not label me in the process (or my kids, because of their parents).
Comment #16 by Melissa McDecember 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pmI’m scared of being labeled. I hate this about myself, but I tend to hide things about myself that I think others will judge me about… like my “liberal” political leanings (really they’re moderate if you ask me), my love of inappropriate/crude humor and trashy TV. The fact that I hide certain things so that people won’t judge really just means that most people don’t really know me and I don’t have many close friends, or real friends at all. It really sucks. But on the other hand, if I lived out loud I fear I’d just be labeled, and ostracized. So, either way you’re damned? (Also, I swear sometimes.)
Comment #17 by LynnetteDecember 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pmLynnette: You can be my friend??!!! Because I like all things you do!
Comment #18 by Melissa McDecember 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pmLynnette, You are not damned. They are. My husband always says, “Let them judge you, they are only damning themselves.” What you need to remember here is that you not wrong for being judged, they are wrong for judging you.
Comment #19 by AmandaDecember 19th, 2009 at 2:17 pmLynnette, we would be best friends… I just know it. I hope you saw Heather’s post about a blog called Cake Wrecks. If you haven’t search for the thread, or google cake wrecks. Then, once your on the site search for the Turkey Poo-Wang. Funniest.post.ever! And, that is why I think we would be great friends.
Melissa, I totally understand. Can’t say I’m always ‘okay’ with what people think of me, but I just decided it hurts my heart to much to visit it over and over. This is me…potty mouth, vulgar laughing, bold-voice-my-opinion, me, and there are people out there who appreciate that about me, and so… I will search those people out and they can be my friends… the rest… poo poo on your heads!
Comment #20 by SunshineDecember 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pmAnd a line from one of my favorite movies of all times…. “Why do you always have to be judging me?”
Comment #21 by SunshineDecember 19th, 2009 at 3:06 pmI think a stereo-typical mormon is someone who faithfully tries to live the teachings of Christ while building a testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and therefore Joseph Smith as a modern prophet.
Everything else is just fluff. Fluff that might stick to some people, or be puffed about by certain individuals, but definitely not the defining qualities of a religion. And the term ‘Mormon’ denotes religious qualities of a person.
Comment #22 by AmyDecember 19th, 2009 at 3:11 pmI agree that I think it’s great she gave you a straight answer. You obviously have felt SOMETHING and yet you seem to be offended that she gave you a truthful answer. Additionally she said she felt you were WRONGLY labeled. It seems she agrees that people have judged you poorly–I could be wrong, but I was getting the impression that you were upset with her–I wouldn’t be. She seems to be on your side, or at the very least she was being honest and I appreciate that.
Secondly, this whole idea of being horrified that people judge each other is something I just don’t get–we all judge each other all the time. Why is this always such a shocker? Please raise your hand if there are people you just don’t like. {Raising}. Please raise your hand if you don’t know everyone in your ward, neighborhood intimately and yet still have your thoughts and ideas about who they are. {Raising}. Please raise your hand if you’ve ever changed your mind about someone. {Raising}.
I just don’t get this whole “I hate it when people judge people.” Well then you must also hate it when people breathe and grow hair because it’s just something we do. It’s not always right, but it’s actually a quite necessary part of living, learning and growing. And sometimes it is right.
Comment #23 by MiggyDecember 19th, 2009 at 3:44 pmMiggy has some good points. We all judge people; and we tend to hang out with people we are comfortable with. I know I do it.
I’ve recently been assigned to VT a woman in the ward who is insecure and sure that everyone is judging her. Well, she’s right. If you have 22 pets, you should not be surprised when people “judge” you enough to report you to animal control. And she’s very very touchy. I’m not sure I can approve of her so wholeheartedly that she feels like I’m not judging her either. But since she’s feeling ostracized and I am now her VT, I will make my best effort.
The people who say they don’t care if people judge them sound like breezy, confident free spirits (I’m too liberal! I have a tattoo! I’m a democrat!). That’s great to be that confident. But judgment feels different to the weird lady with too many pets, who makes bizarre comments in class, and has been beaten down by life enough that she doesn’t trust anyone to like her because she doesn’t really like herself.
Comment #24 by Molly in the Jello BeltDecember 19th, 2009 at 5:01 pmSo molly, what exactly are you saying? So now you can’t be to confident because you don’t know what it ‘really’ feels like to be judged because you are confident (and have overcome whatever obstacle you have in your life to become confident)? If that is what you are saying, I totally disagree. If you are saying something else, would mind clarifying? I’m a bit confused.
There is a wonderful lady in our ward who has the heart the size of the ocean. She has been labeled weird, socially awkward, and a lot of folks just don’t like her. People judge her all the time and she knows it, yet, that doesn’t bother her. What bothers her is if they are rude to her face. Now… I can get on board with that. I’ll deal with what is happening right in front of me, not what I think might be happening. She is an amazing woman.
Of course we all judge, I think it’s human nature, but I’m tired of trying to bend over backwards because Mrs. Jones doesn’t like the way I parent. Or Sister Smith has an issue with the fact that I have my babies at home. Or Brother and Sister Anderson can’t stand that I drive an SUV. I have children to raise, a husband to get along with, and a so many more things that fill my life with joy that I’m tired of spending it on the pain and on the belief that ‘I’m not good enough’ to be someones friend, or VT partner. Been there, done that, way to many times to count, and likewise I’m done worrying about it (er, almost).
Comment #25 by SunshineDecember 19th, 2009 at 5:31 pmWhen we moved to this ward, we were in temporary housing for 6 months then we were planning to relocate to a suburb or outskirt of the city. After we went to church and I met you, found out about your book club, and looked up your blog, I told Robbie there was no way we were moving out of this ward. We checked every address in the ward locater website before we even looked at the house. Coming from my old ward, I was pretty sure I was the only Mormon who didn’t think Obama was the anti-Christ. I say thank goodness for the non-stereotypical Mormons. Makes me realize that everyone is welcome in the church.
Comment #26 by KimarieDecember 19th, 2009 at 5:58 pmMiggy: I wasnt’ upset with HIM at all…he was just confirming my worst fears. it’s called denial. And I think I could deal with it, if I knew WHAT it was I/we had done to become labeled in the first place. That way if it’s something I’ve done I can apologize or repent. If it’s just me being me, well then, tough. At least my husband doesn’t think I’m crazy now that it has been confirmed.
Yes, agreed we all judge.
Kimarie: Glad you are here!
Comment #27 by Melissa McDecember 19th, 2009 at 6:28 pmSunshine, I’m working on the transition from “no one really likes me” to “I’m a likable person.” I’m saying that kind of confidence where you can shrug off other peoples’ judgments is hard to get to. If you’ve gotten there, good for you. Some days I’m there; some days I’m not. But I don’t know if I’m confident enough to make up for someone else’s insecurities; it’s hard to be good friends with someone who is needy. And honestly, when she’s talked about how judged she feels, it makes me want to avoid her because I’m afraid she’ll either insist I meet her emotional needs, or add me to the list of people who judge her. I don’t know how to handle interacting with people who are crushed when they feel other people are judging them. I’m always afraid I’m going to inadvertently step on their toes and cause them more emotional pain.
I don’t think the original poster was in that category; she seemed more bemused than offended that she might have been ‘mislabeled.’
Comment #28 by Molly in the Jello BeltDecember 19th, 2009 at 6:29 pmStating that we all judge and it’s human nature to do so is true, yes. But we have also been commanded to put off the natural man, and overcoming judgment is one of the hardest things we need to learn. We all judge, yes, but can’t we all be working on it, too? And get better at NOT judging?
Comment #29 by The WizDecember 19th, 2009 at 7:10 pmOh, and sorry, Melissa, but I can’t STAND Hillary. I like you, though.:)
Comment #30 by The WizDecember 19th, 2009 at 7:11 pmThanks for the love, Wiz!
Comment #31 by Melissa McDecember 19th, 2009 at 7:16 pmWant to move to Gilbert, Arizona Melissa? I’d love to label you a friend. (Plus I like sports, got married in my 30’s and have a tattoo on my ankle…not as cool as a nose-ring, but it certainly turns heads here.)
I’ll admit I hide things from my current ward and my previous ward in Mesa for this very reason. When people are sharing testimonies about “Brother” Glenn Beck and bashing Pres. Obama without hesitation in Sunday School, my husband and I just keep out of the discussion. And yes, that’s probably weak on our part, but there’s a real need to get along with the ‘tribe’ when you live in a state with no family.
I hope you get answers Melissa. Just for peace of mind if nothing else.
And Sues2u2: I’ve been there. Our first 2 years in Mesa we had some of the hardest Sundays - we dreaded it. DH and I joked that we must know the church is true because if we had been going for social reasons, that ward would have killed us off in 6 months. Easy. I really hope it gets better for you!
Comment #32 by ZinkaDecember 19th, 2009 at 8:02 pmGag. A. Maggot. I hate it when people bring up politics in a place and time devoted to Jesus Christ. And then when politics get in the way of ward unity—double gag.
Comment #33 by Heather O.December 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pmIt always makes me jump for joy when this happens to others!!
It’s a reason why I do not attend my ward, and instead ward hop now. Much to my husband & son’s horrors. 
People are peculiar.
Comment #34 by MelzieDecember 19th, 2009 at 10:05 pmMolly, thanks for clarifying. It is tough to let go of not being good enough, and on the same spin of the coin it tough to let go of others not being good enough either.
I know you aren’t asking my opinion and I’m sorry I’m giving it, but just be you, the loving and caring you, you know how to be. She has the choice to accept you for who you are (like we all do) or not. Probably not the worst thing in the world if she ended up disliking you, but then… you could be that gem that she needs.
(okay.. I’m really trying to change my attitude about vt and so that’s why the speech. good luck and listen to your gut/spirit, like I’m assuming you already are).
And wiz… I totally agree and think we all could use help in the shedding of the natural man. I know I can. baby steps I guess!
Comment #35 by SunshineDecember 19th, 2009 at 10:15 pmI know I have a label. We go to a specialized ward and have been placed in a calling with others like me. I have to live with it for family harmony, even thou I have escaped at times to a different ward for my own sanity. My husband supported and supports my choice. Yes, I feel the label gets in the way of people knowing me.
Comment #36 by anonDecember 20th, 2009 at 8:49 amMelissa–
Thanks for clarifying. For some reason I was stuck on the thought that you were mad at your friend for being straight with you. I really do get how upsetting that would be to hear people have pegged you wrong– or that they’ve pegged you at all. I too would be thinking what does that mean and what do people think about us? Is this a common misperception, etc? I definitely don’t think it would be cool or feel good to hear that.
That being said I think if you went around the ward in sacrament meeting and had to describe everyone in 1-2 sentences, you would see that you might say things like “she’s cool. I like her…They’re a wonderful couple who always helps others….That family seems a little out there, but I don’t know them very well…I avoid that dude like the plague–he gives me the creeps…she’s too conservative for me, seems like a stick in the mud” etc… I just think we ALL have some idea about other people and I truly don’t think most of it is this wicked, evil type of judgement.
When people say things like “we shouldn’t judge others.” to me it’s one of those common ideas that people like to throw out–a blanket statement–that is actually quite confusing and misleading. There is good judgement, bad judgement and even, in my opinion, neutral judgement. So when people say things like “don’t judge me” I think not all judgement is bad….and yet we want people to abstain from all judgement. I don’t know, to me this isn’t totally about abstaining from the natural man…this is a very necessary part of life. Personally, I know I haven’t always felt drawn to certain people–it doesn’t mean I’ve judged them unworthy of my time or that I think they’re bad people, but maybe I just don’t think we’ll click…so I focus my efforts on people I do think I’ll click with. And sometimes I’ve been dead wrong on both accounts–BUT I don’t think I was being judgmental in a negative way. My point being, lets not be quick to judge others as judging us. Elder Oaks gave a great talk clarifying ideas about judgement and this quote sort of sums up the idea, “There are two kinds of judging: final judgments, which we are forbidden to make, and intermediate judgments, which we are directed to make, but upon righteous principles.” I understand the key is making judgement upon righteous principals, but admittedly we can’t be perfect at that, but I think most of us try.
Also–I hate to say this–but maybe there IS a reason you’re getting a certain label. When I was in college I was at work one day when a co-worker asked to talk to me. She pulled me aside and said “Why do you hate me?” I was in SHOCK. I didn’t hate her. AT ALL. The truth was, I didn’t even think about her. In my opinion I didn’t feel that I was being exclusionary, I was just more drawn to the people that were already my friends and thus spent my time with them. However, once she explained her feelings and why she thought I hated her {her words, not mine} I could see from her perspective why I may have come off that way. Of course I felt bad, BUT I realized that my actions {or inactions} were sending the wrong message.
OK–that’s all….you can read Elder Oaks’ talk here:
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=2d0584d4a0a0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Comment #37 by MiggyDecember 20th, 2009 at 8:22 pmI’ll out myself here, I grew up in Heber/Overgaard and graduated from Snowflake high school……talk about “labeling”…….
You may all judge…:)
Comment #38 by FaithDecember 26th, 2009 at 3:25 pmWhat do you do when you realize you have offended someone at church and you want to repair the damage?
Briefly this is the deal. I am very conservative and on my facebook page questioned the new health care bill and wondered aloud if people who voted for Obama were having second thoughts. One man in my ward, a big Obama fan, saw this apparently and just can’t forgive me. It came to head yesterday when he spoke in church and praised extensively by name every returned missionary in our ward, except my son who just returned with the rest of the group he praised. It was such a glaring dig, I was stunned he was so angry still with me.
I share this here so you all will know that people say and do stupid things and offend and judge and make mistakes. I apparently did this and I feel so sad about it and don’t know what to do. We never know what is another’s heart. We just need to be more loving I guess. I would do anything to take it all back, I am so sad he has these feelings towards me and now my family.
Comment #39 by Just SomeoneDecember 28th, 2009 at 5:26 amUnfortunately we all get labeled. I guess it is how we deal with it that helps get us through. I realized about 25 years ago that I had been labeled…..the temple married now divorced single mom; then it was just the single mom; then it was the sister/part member family; the workaholic mom who doesn’t stay home with her child and bake cookies; the depressed lady who can’t get it all together; and the list goes on and on…. and, then later in life I realized that even though I didn’t like the labels given to myself I too labeled people in my ward. I am now trying NOT to use those labels and trying to remember how I feel when they are used on me. I know I am different (not in a weird way, just different), I am not even a typical mom — I have one grown daughter and am now raising my currently 5 year old adpoted son in my late forties — where do I fit in? I am not a twenty/thirty something mom and I don’t usually get invited to do the things they do (and rightfully so) but yet, most of the sisters my age don’t have 5 year old children either - so I don’t always fit in that group.
The sad part is that I realized too late that I chose to let those labels hurt me. I now realize that I don’t, won’t and probably never will fit into the perfect mold (whatever it is) and that is ok. I am me and I am ok being me differently from everyone else.
Comment #40 by Dr. MomDecember 28th, 2009 at 8:40 am