By Heather O.
I’ve started and restarted this post, trying to figure out what I want to say. I’ve tried humorous, roundabout I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings, straightforward, rude-in-yo-FACE, but none of it is coming out quite right. So I guess I’m just going to say it. (Which means it might come out as straightforward AND rude-in-yo-FACE, so be prepared.)
Women in the church are awful.
Seriously, I keep defending them, especially when I hear stories about things that people do in other wards or in other states. I think, and say, “It’s not like that everywhere, you just got a bad crop”, or “She didn’t mean it that way”, or “Maybe she’s coming from a difficult place and you have to understand her point of view.”
Sometimes, those things are true.
Sometimes, they are not.
I include myself in this. I have said and done things that are not in keeping with the spirit of Jesus Christ. I try not to, honestly, but sometimes I fall short of the ideal and act like a b*tch.
(I swear sometimes, too. A lot, actually. I need to work on this. Which brings me to the point of this post.)
Pointing out personal failings to another human being is not being Christian. You’re not fulfilling your Christian duty to help somebody out. You’re just being a jerk.
For example, I know that I swear too much. My kids remind me of the hypocrisy of demanding good language from them, but letting a whopper fly when I am mad (or in pain. The late-night stubbing of the toe seems to be a particularly effective catalyst for my inner sailor).
I might be working on this, I might not be. If I am working on this, I don’t need somebody else to tell me it’s a problem. If I’m *not* working on this, telling me I should be just makes me want to punch you in the face. If you are my bishop or my husband, it might give me pause. If you are not, back away, sister.
I don’t know what it is about women in the church that makes us believe we can be the righteous police. And again, I include myself in this. I recently told somebody that she needed to make some changes about what she posted on FB. She got defensive, angry, and shut down the friendship. The question is not, why did she do that? The question is, why would I have expected her to react differently?
The mother who gets told that her daughter is not wearing modest clothing is not going to thank you for explaining modesty to her. She’s going to get defensive, angry, and either shut down the conversation/friendship or stop coming to church or both.
The very essence of christianity is to accept people even when they are not living up to an ideal standard, indeed, especially when they are not living up to an ideal standard. We learn the ideals from the pulpits, from our teachers, from our lesson manuals. It’s not as if there are members of the church who don’t know what our expectations are. It’s covered. Really.
I hear story after story of women who are confronted by other women who feel it is okay to tell somebody else how to live, how to dress, how to speak, how to behave. Unless somebody else’s behavior is a danger or a detriment to your family, and unless you are a parent or a trusted mentor, you need to just let it go. Seriously. (And, just for the record, exposed shoulders aren’t dangerous. Neither are tattoos, nose rings, double row of ear piercings, divorced women, or not wearing nylons in church.) You don’t have to be that person’s best friend, you don’t have to agree with her choices or her behavior, you can even be uncomfortable and choose not to be around her. But you do need to keep your uncharitable thoughts to yourself. Because outwardly condemning somebody else’s behavior, even if it is legitimately silly/destructive/offensive, is not going to change it. It’s just going to make that person hate you. And never, ever, ever come to you for help.
Women of this church, we are better than this. We are strong and immovable, as we’ve been told time and time again, and we have the power to be a force of good in this world that is unlike anything else. We do damage to ourselves and to our sisters when we lose the focus to love one another and build the kingdom of God and start deciding on our own who deserves to be in the kingdom of God and who doesn’t.
Because those choices, they are not ours to make. And God has made it pretty clear about what He thinks about those who try to do His job for him.




Thank you for this post. I’ve just been asked to take a meal to a new, 15 year old mother (sure!). But while I’m there, the RS councilor told me I’m supposed to mention the proclamation and encourage the baby be given up for adoption. Telling a brand new mother whose child has just been released from the NICU to give it up just rubs me so very, very wrong. She needs real love and support instead.
“We do damage to ourselves and to our sisters when we lose the focus to love one another and build the kingdom of God and start deciding on our own who deserves to be in the kingdom of God and who doesn’t.”
Thank you.
Comment #1 by HokieKateOctober 9th, 2012 at 1:07 pmHokieKate, please don’t tell that 15 year old to put her child for adoption. That just hurts my heart. Would you want somebody saying that to your daughter??? Tell her that you love her, and that whatever she decides, you AND the RS are there for support, which, by the way, should include if she decides she wants to parent her child. She and her baby are among the most vulnerable of God’s children, and at this point, need as much support and love as possible.
Comment #2 by Heather O.October 9th, 2012 at 1:24 pmHeather, I absolutely agree with you. I plan to focus our discussion on the benefits of breastfeeding and her plans to return to ninth grade instead.
Comment #3 by HokieKateOctober 9th, 2012 at 2:07 pmSometimes only a swear word will do.
And I remember my favorite bishop of all time, who gave a talk about how good it would be to smell cigarette smoke in the chapel. If you smell it, then it means that someone who struggles is trying to make a positive change, and is in the right place. We should go up to that person and tell them we’re glad to see them. We should never judge those types of things, because aren’t we all working to be better? Some of our vices are more obvious than others’ but we ALL have them!
Man, I really miss wearing my second set of earrings.
Comment #4 by MarianneOctober 9th, 2012 at 2:30 pmA second ear piercing looks asymmetrical
Comment #5 by Nate OmanOctober 9th, 2012 at 2:42 pmThank you for posting this and for your honesty. My family hasn’t stepped foot inside an LDS building since 2007. We we’re already on the fence about the ward we had moved into 2 years earlier…we just never clicked with any one. That summer we ’skipped’ church for 2 months straight due to family trips and sports activities, when we returned the primary president asked my 3 children to stand up as visitors so they could sing the welcome song to them, my children we’re so embarrassed they insisted that they were not visitors but she said they were marked down as inactive.
We left that Sunday and never went back. Two months later the same primary pres and her counsel stopped by before church and offered to take our children with them from now on since we “refused to” and it wasn’t fair to withhold the blessing of the church from our children.
I know our faith in the gospel should be rooted in Christ and the teachings of the Prophets but who wants to spend that much time out of our lives around such awful people?
Oh and don’t get me started on all the rumors that started flying around the ward about my husband and I…from divorce, to affairs, to drugs and Word of Wisdom issues. I still bump into sisters at the store or the school who look the other way and refuse to say hello.
Comment #6 by roxie4022October 9th, 2012 at 2:52 pmI really liked this post until I got to the comments. Totally agree with HokieKate about not pushing the 15 year old girl about adoption. (And I’m actually certified to adopt and would love a baby, but would never push myself on anyone). But, then in the next comment you’re going to push breastfeeding and that she needs to go back to 9th grade?
And as for roxie4022, I know there can be ALOT of self-righteous people, but maybe, just maybe the intentions of their primary presidency weren’t meant in the way they were interpreted? I’m just saying that you are pointing out their failings of not being Christ-like enough while you feel like they are pointing out yours.
I’m guilty of saying things I wish I hadn’t, making judgments I shouldn’t of, and not doing exactly the best way. But, I’m human and certainly not perfect. I’ve called people and asked them to forgive me and try to make amends. Sometimes I just wish we would all just let it go. Give each other a hug and call it a day.
Comment #7 by AndiOctober 9th, 2012 at 3:49 pmAndi, I don’t see anything incongruous about HokieKate’s comments. If that 15 year old does decide to parent (which is entirely her decision, not anybody else’s), then what should HokieKate’s discussion look like? Breastfeeding is important, as is finishing school. What else should she be focusing on? If this young mother decides that adoption is the route for her and her family, that decision needs to be made without coercion or pressure from anybody.
Again, I repeat that a 15 year old single mother and her baby are among the most vulnerable of God’s children. Our job as a relief society is to do that–relieve the most vulnerable’s suffering. And that includes helping a frightened teenager nurse her sick newborn, regardless of what we think of that teenager’s life choices.
Comment #8 by Heather O.October 9th, 2012 at 4:03 pmAnd I also agree that sometimes we read things into actions, assigning motivations that just aren’t there. Sometimes people are inarticulate, sometimes they are offensive without meaning to, sometimes we hear things that we take the wrong way when really somebody was talking about something else. Lots of times, we think it’s about us when it really isn’t.
But sometimes, we just need to do better.
Comment #9 by Heather O.October 9th, 2012 at 4:13 pmPoint taken Heather.
I’m not sure what the conversation should look like with the 15 year old. I just know people have very strong feelings about breastfeeding and many older woman have a hard time balancing that while working/going to school and it probably seems daunting to a young woman. I have heard many discuss the benefits of breastfeeding and their passion makes it seem like if you choose anything else your child is doomed. That’s the only reason I thought it seemed incongrous… and of course I’m all for anybody finishing high school.
I’ve worked with 15 year olds that have had babies and brought them to our school for day care (it was an alt. high school) and I think the most important thing is that they feel support and love.
So at the end of the day, I think we agree.
Comment #10 by AndiOctober 9th, 2012 at 4:29 pmYes Heather. You’ve hit the nail on the head. We really should be so much better than this.
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Comment #13 by Heather O.October 9th, 2012 at 7:32 pmI am reminded of a PEC I attended many years ago, when my wife was trying to come back into activity. Her name came up, and I mentioned an incident where one of the sisters in the ward said something hurtful and judgmental, which I repeated. One of the men in the meeting spoke up and said “At least I know it wasn’t MY wife that said that.”
You know the rest of the story. It was that guy’s wife. We eventually had to move out of state before church was a safe place for her again.
Comment #14 by CS EricOctober 9th, 2012 at 8:25 pmMy perspective on my sisters in the church could not be more different. In my experience, humans in general (not just in the church, but everywhere) are intensely curious about one another and for the most part, caring. But they are flawed and often very inarticulate and unable to communicate their concern in the perfect way every time. I’ve discovered that it’s all about HOW I LISTEN. If I listen to what these good women (and men) are trying to tell me with my ears only, then yes, a lot of potentially hurtful, offensive things have been said to me over the years. But I have found that if I CHOOSE to listen with my heart, to a person’s real intent, with a measure of mercy and compassion and generosity, what I usually hear is “I care about you/your family/your child. I am concerned about you. I want to help. I love you.” And I try to respond to their intent, not their awkward or inadequate words. And you know what, if I listen with the same heart to message of this author, it’s what I find in her message, too. I hear the words of someone who sees hurt and pain in the women around her and is trying to help, however unfortunately worded and — as she herself recognizes — potentially offensive her words may seem.
Comment #15 by Erika Edwards DecasterOctober 9th, 2012 at 9:44 pmAs someone who has been in the primary presidency, I will say that they probably didn’t mean any harm by singing the welcome song. If anything, they probably needed a time-filler. One time I had a person stand up and be recognized as a visitor, only to find out that that person was actually one of our regular teachers who had been recently called. Oops. I felt bad and apologized later- luckily the person didn’t care and thought it was funny. Sometimes you lose your wits in front of a big group of people- even when most of them are kids.
And Nate Oman, the two sets of earrings may look asymmetrical to you, but I think it is cute and Jesus loves me whether I wear them or not.
Comment #16 by MarianneOctober 9th, 2012 at 9:50 pmMy Mom always told me we go to church to learn patience. We’re all practicing at being Latter Day Saints. Church is funny and inspirational, crazy and imperfect like a Family. But the Gospel is Perfect, such is our call to be Saints.
Comment #17 by TrinkOctober 9th, 2012 at 10:40 pmBrilliant, Heather. Yes, and amen.
Comment #18 by Andrea R.October 10th, 2012 at 3:56 amA resounding Amen to this post.
You know what makes me mad? When we give more support to the new mother who was married in the temple, has a stable marriage and whose husband makes a living for them, than for the young 15-year old girl who just had a baby. Both women need support, but I would venture to say that the 15-year old girl needs more love and support in SPADES. Her family needs to know that they are still loved and not seen as the ward project.
Several years ago, I visit taught a young woman who had a baby and was a teenager. I felt like my job was to love her and help her all I could. Not judge her! Her relationship with the church was tenuous at best. If more women in the ward had opened their arms in love to her, I think her current story would be much different.
A close friend of mine got pregnant and then married. The RS sisters in her ward won’t sit by her, refuse to invite her and her darling son to playdates that are organized by the RS, and treat her like she is Hester Prynne from the Scarlet Letter. I’ve watched this dear friend suffer over and over cruelty from people who are in no position to judge her. The miracle is that she is trying to stay active.
These serious weaknesses in women are the major reason why I don’t buy one bit that women are more righteous or spiritual than men. Anyone who says that is totally oblivious to the serious crap that women put each other through.
Comment #19 by Tiffany W.October 10th, 2012 at 7:46 amBeing friends with somebody who has made different life choices doesn’t mean we condone those choices. I think sometimes we forget that.
Comment #20 by Heather O.October 10th, 2012 at 7:54 amReading this after staying up until 3:30am baking bread bowls for a Relief Society dinner. Not super excited about the dinner, but I do look forward to spending time with the wonderful women of our ward.
Do we have some sisters who are judgmental, critical, and even hypocritical? Of course. What ward doesn’t? But I can honestly say that the tone of our ward is one of openness and welcome. Our last bishop was on his second marriage. One of our RS teachers is a single never-been-married mother, the other two have inactive or nonmember husbands. Less-than-ideal family situations tend to be the norm here, and nobody makes a big deal about it. Even the jerks seem to understand that.
So I just wanted to put it out there that yes, women can be awful to each other, but I also see the sisters in our ward supporting each other through addiction, infidelity, financial troubles, inactivity, and all the other heartbreaks of life.
(And we love getting new ward members if you want to move!)
Comment #21 by StephanieOctober 10th, 2012 at 8:10 amThank you, Stephanie. My experience is more like yours. And that’s all I’m going to say about this topic.
Comment #22 by StrollerbladerOctober 10th, 2012 at 2:18 pmIt’s funny what people (women) can say to other people (women).
Comment #23 by convert mom of 5October 10th, 2012 at 2:33 pmA friend of mine had twins who were about 12 months old when she started showing with her pregnancy of their little sister. She posted on facebook at least once a week with something horrible that someone had said to her, often in the grocery store. This continued even after her daughter was born.
My own mother and sister said many hurtful things to me when I was pregnant with my last child. It constantly reminded me that no matter how well meaning we may be, it is always important to think before we speak. Think about how it might sound from a different pair of shoes than my own.
Heather-
Yes. Yes. Yes. Preach it.
And, I am kinda jealous, I’ve never had wizard spam on my site.
Comment #24 by SandraOctober 10th, 2012 at 3:12 pmWhat a great article. I am that freak girl. No major obvious horriffic “sinlike thingies” (only the usual unobvious ones we all have) but visible disability. It was really weird… when I was younger and in college, I was treated as reasonably intelligent. Then I spent a few years married and NOT pregnant, and was weird… because something was wrong with me and I was sick and couldn’t get pregnant. Then I had children, and within six month, magically the world opened to me and I have friends EVERYWHERE. Then, I moved across country. I spent several years being borderline normalish with a good amount of friends, and a good amount of playdates. Then I spent a year in bed with debilitating pain and a violent and viciously sick pregnancy. All my wardmates were really concerned about me for about two months. Then…not so much. Trickling friendships disappeared. that was four years ago, and they never returned. I am still pariah. I have two friends, and I’m friendly to everyone, and I have a few potential friends places. But I just about lost every friend I had during that year vomiting on the couch. Now, I’m even more disabled, and most of my ward mates are joggers… they all have playdates at the park where they can go running and leave the kids to play. I’m never invited, but the one time I tagged along with someone who WAS invited, I was… the babysitter. Yay. I cannot run like the rest of the thirty five year olds, and I like to read more than scrapbook. Although I’m really crafty.
I like stuff like science and literature, and really Thinking about things… which is why many of my friends are those who have had similar experiences, have kept their testimonies (as have I) but have just had to realize that if they might not have a friend in their ward, specifically, that doesn’t mean there’s not many, many women worldwide who struggle with the same frustrations… many of whom can be found and enjoyed online… In contrast, the “other ward” (the one ours split from) has most of my friends in it, and almost all of the people I used to hangout with… so I jump over and do their activities, too. I figure, it’s LESS relief society activities that would be a problem, not MORE. Less interaction is an issue, not more… SO I go ahead and go to their sewing nights and dinners and Christmas Parties. And I have sisters in that ward (genetic ones) so initially I had a reason to be there… but now I’d like to think they actually like me and value me… sigh, someday I’ll be useful in my home ward, but until then….
Comment #25 by Heather B from SCOctober 10th, 2012 at 3:52 pmAndi, you’re absolutely right that some breastfeeding advocates are too pushy. The girl actually came to me asking for breastfeeding advice while she was pregnant, since she hoped to nurse her child. Therefore I want to follow up with her and see what support she needs. She also intended to return to school, so I want to encourage her on that route.
Comment #26 by HokieKateOctober 10th, 2012 at 5:15 pmI love to hear good stories about women in the church. Honestly, I do, and up until recently, I would have said that those are the only kinds of stories that happen. But off of the top of my head, I can think of at least 6 women I know who are struggling, or who have family members who are struggling, because of unkind things that have been said or done to them from ward members. People in Utah, out of Utah, everywhere.
At first I dismissed it to thinking that people were too sensitive (which happens, for sure), or that they were misinterpreting things (which happens also) and that we all need a healthy dose of charity when reading people’s motives (always good. Charity never faileth!). But when I hear story after story of women getting shunned, snubbed, hurt, ostracized, or, WORST OF ALL, told that either she or her daughter isn’t modest enough, it makes me want to tear my hair out and go, “What the WHAT??”
Seriously, don’t ever tell somebody that she is immodest, or that her daughter isn’t dressing modestly enough. A grown woman does not need to be told one single thing about the way she dresses, period. And if you are going to approach a teenager about how she dresses, you gotta do it very, very, very carefully. Because if you do it wrong, chances are that teenager will still continue to dress inappropriately *AND* hate coming to church. Not a happy or productive combo.
Tread lightly, friends.
Comment #27 by Heather O.October 10th, 2012 at 5:37 pmI’ve spent my life dodging the fallout from this kind of problem. Some women can be very subtle about their judgemental b^tchiness; Mormon women are not immune from it, and it’s fairly common. I suspect the problem might feed off of the relative powerlessness that women in general sometimes experience, thus some women enjoy wielding power over somebody else.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the unspoken church territory of not-quite-acceptable. There’s an array of skills that you can develop as you try to keep it from poisoning your life; the most effective (for me) being recognizing that all of us are at some point on a learning curve, and the clueless biddies who want to exclude you are not very evolved on theirs. The biggest hazard is picking up that same behavior and applying it to someone else who irritates or scares you, or for whatever reason fails to engage your empathy. The antidote to all of this is found in trying to follow after the Lord.
Comment #28 by MDearestOctober 10th, 2012 at 6:25 pmI’ve struggled for many years in the first ward I ever lived in, after being married, away from my parents/home ward. Our son was 4. I was having some medical issues, and was at the time trying to get healthy and maybe get pregnant. We moved into a very college oriented ward, meaning almost all husbands were getting their masters or PhDs, and their wives stayed home with their 2-3 kids. I was the same age as some of these sisters, and our son was the perfect age for playgroups. BUT my husband wasn’t trying to get his masters or PhD. He had his degree from another college, and we were there for a new job. We were making money, and not a poor college family, but I guess they thought I was to good for them. Maybe that wasn’t the reason, I don’t know but I struggled. I cried to my husband, to my Mom.
And then I got pregnant. And for a while I was accepted. But then baby came early, was in NICU for a week. My Mom came to help. I got 2 meals. And that was that.
Then I got pregnant with #3. I remember my Mom telling me to do the best I could, be nice, friendly, invite people over for dinner, dessert. Which I did while pregnant with #3, but we never were invited back, or invited to parties, bbq, or anything. I always volunteered to babysit which was always needed. And I gladly did it. Never expected anything in return.
I was taught to have a friend, you must be a friend. I was finding that hard to believe in that ward.
And then I was pregnant with #4. (yes, we had 3 in 3 1/2 yrs, haha) I learned of another sister in my ward who was also pregnant, due at the same time. They were a few years older than us, and out of college too. They were actually from that town, so they weren’t going anywhere soon. I was so focused on the group of women my age and college family, that I didn’t see who else there was. Took me 4 years to realize it. I invited this couple and 3 kids over for dessert, and we all clicked! We became best friends over night and had almost 7 years of real friendship (including our husbands, who still text each other more than she & me I am sure) until we moved 7 years ago. And I miss my best friend!
We are now here, and I was released recently from RS presidency after over 6 years in it. I felt disconnected, like I had no one. I thought the RS pres and I were good friends. I really did. But not anymore. A new sister just moved in a few months ago with a big family like ours (we had 3 more kids eventually), and both our babies just started kindergarten. We don’t work (I work some at the school, but not full-time or daily), and we have been having the best time. I invited them over for dinner one night when my husband was home (he is choosing to work weekends, so never really at church either), and her husband and mine clicked. We actually are going on a double date on Friday night. I I am so excited! Haven’t been out with friends for so long!
Yes, a long story. Struggles with “those” type of women. And something else my Mom told me…
Always go to church. Whether you have friends or don’t have friends. Sacrament Meeting is for renewing your covenants that you have made. Do not worry about them. The gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect, people aren’t. Go for your own salvation and to teach your children as you have been commanded to do so. Never speak bad about the leaders or people who have hurt you in front of your children. Be an example to them.
I did that. Still doing that. Our oldest son returned off his mission last year, and was recently married in the Temple. He wrote me a letter while he was on his mission thanking me for always teaching him the correct princles and always making sure that we went to church/meetings even if he didn’t want to go (as a teenager).
Comment #29 by BugsyOctober 11th, 2012 at 8:40 amThank you, Bugsy. Friendship and fellowship at church is nice. But that is not WHY we go to church. We go to renew our covenants and to be obedient. We go to hear the word of God. We go to set an example for our children. I don’t understand people who get offended over some dumb person in their ward and then stop going! Why would you let that person stand between you and your covenants? They aren’t worth that. I have had problems with people in my ward before, including people I was asked to serve with in the Young Women’s presidency. I just prayed and asked God to soften my heart and soften their heart and help me through it. When I was in the MTC my companion was so angry at me all the time–she seriously hated me! I couldn’t understand why. I asked her to tell me what I was doing to make her mad so I could stop it. She finally said, “I always thought I got along with everyone, until I met you.” Um, ouch! But I decided that it was her problem, not mine, and that it wasn’t worth getting upset over. So I laughed and said, “Well, I still like you! We’re both out here to serve the Lord, and I think that with the love of Christ we can work through it.” Months later, in our mission, she ran up to me at a zone conference and apologized profusely. She now had a tough and unfriendly companion/trainer and realized what a good companion I had been. She said she’d finally figured out that it wasn’t me that was bothering her, but having to be with someone 24/7 and not having any Alone Time.
Whenever I am tempted to become offended by someone’s thoughtlessness or even willful rudeness, I remember this story President Monson shared in the April 2002 General Conference address “Hidden Wedges.”
“Their third child was born, lived but two months, and then died. Father was a cabinetmaker and fashioned a beautiful casket for the body of his precious child. The day of the funeral was gloomy, thus reflecting the sadness they felt in their loss. As the family walked to the chapel, with Father carrying the tiny casket, a small number of friends had gathered. However, the chapel door was locked. The busy bishop had forgotten the funeral. Attempts to reach him were futile. Not knowing what to do, the father placed the casket under his arm and, with his family beside him, carried it home, walking in a drenching rain.
“If the family were of a lesser character, they could have blamed the bishop and harbored ill feelings. When the bishop discovered the tragedy, he visited the family and apologized. With the hurt still evident in his expression, but with tears in his eyes, the father accepted the apology, and the two embraced in a spirit of understanding. No hidden wedge was left to cause further feelings of anger. Love and acceptance prevailed.”
If that man could forgive, how can I not? Please don’t let stupid people determine your devotion to the Lord’s Church.
Comment #30 by SandiOctober 11th, 2012 at 12:02 pmThe Wiz said that I should have written, “women in the church *can* be awful”. Perhaps she’s right. Women aren’t universally mean and don’t universally say cruel things. It just seems that whenever I hear stories about people being emotionally mistreated in the church, it’s usually about women.
Or maybe men just don’t care as much.
Comment #31 by Heather O.October 12th, 2012 at 3:13 pmYou know my story, Heather, so I won’t rehearse it here, but thank you for this post and your comments. Thank you more than you will ever know.
Comment #32 by MelyndaOctober 15th, 2012 at 4:22 pmI try to be the kind of person I want others to be. I don’t always succeed, but having been on the receiving end of hurtful comments where I did stop going to RS for 4 years, I have decided that I don’t want to cause someone that sort of pain.
Comment #33 by m2thehOctober 18th, 2012 at 9:17 amHonestly, it’s women everywhere. It doesn’t have to do with church or religion or anything. I’ve had complete strangers criticize me for bottle feeding my baby - who happens to be adopted.
And you know, I think there’s an interesting example here. Heather, you’ve alluded to the horrible pain that one person you know experienced in the adoption process of 20 years ago. Now, we have open adoptions and love our birth mothers they are honored names in our home. We regularly get together. Your comments sometimes make me want to say “not all of us adoptive couples are baby-stealers.” But guess what? I know you’re not purposefully trying to say hurtful things. But you know what, even if you were/are trying to say that people who adopt are just taking advantage of another’s misery I don’t think that should have any impact on my relationship with Christ or the sacredness of the Sacrament in my life.
In fact, we had a neighbor and ward member who told me that our daughter was born with cancer because Satan was allowed to attack her because we were in support of the Affordable Care act. Thus, my husband and I had become angels of the devil. Yes, he said that. And you know what? I still take the Sacrament every Sunday. I still go and try to act kindly to all. Because I’m sure I’ve said stupid, hurtful things, and I’m sure I’ve even been judgmental when I shouldn’t have been. But I would have liked the benefit of the doubt. - Or, if they were going to take offense and hold a grudge, I wish they would speak up and tell me where I offended/wronged them. I really think that if those of us who receive/take offense spoke up, there’d be fewer thoughtless, judgmental comments.
Comment #34 by EmilyOctober 18th, 2012 at 3:11 pmI agree with your post…somewhat. I agree with Emily more. I agree that it’s women everywhere, not just in the Church. Women can be quite cruel, and I’ve spent most of my life shying away from them because I have experienced it often. But I also feel women can be very sensitive and often times feel attacked when it wasn’t intended; and they can be stubborn to forgive or at least not take offense to it. While many women would like the benefit of the doubt when they say something stupid, they tend to not be so generous to giving others that same benefit. I also think that women sometimes feel more inclined to take a -for lack of a better term- cowardly approach to these types of incidents. Rather than be transparent and talk to said person about a hurtful comment, they cling to it and share it with just about anyone *but* the person who said it. I am certainly guilty of both incidences though I am really trying to be better. My rule of thumb is that if don’t have the guts to address it with that person, I will not share it with others. That comment resides between me and that person and us alone. Sharing and gossiping about it only hurts everyone, furthering the distance between all of us.
Comment #35 by HaybayOctober 18th, 2012 at 10:17 pmEmily, I never said people who adopt are baby stealers. That would be silly, as I don’t believe that. I’m alluding to one person’s pain, my friend’s pain, and it’s her story, not anybody else’s. I have no doubt that your story is entirely different than hers (although I would ask that you not dismiss her story as irrelevant, just because it happened 20 years ago.).
Also, while I think that giving others the benefit of the doubt is great, I’m specifically talking about how women in the church sometimes feel like it’s their place to correct others. While the correction may be coming from a good place, at best it creates alienation. I don’t want to be friends with somebody who I have to be on my guard around, or who I feel is constantly evaluating my speech, my actions, or my parenting. I may forgive them for their actions, even like them again, but I’d rather spend my time on friendships where even if I cross a line, my friends continue to love and accept me. Seriously, why would I want to be friends with somebody who tells me all the time what I am doing wrong? It takes a very very strong bond to survive being corrected, and I would guess that our relationships in the church aren’t strong enough to weather those kinds of blows. I even hate it when my mother does it, and she’s been correcting me my whole life!
Comment #36 by Heather O.October 19th, 2012 at 8:03 amAnd Emily, let’s talk more about what that man said to you about your child’s illness. I commend you for continuing to be faithful and patient in the light of somebody telling you that your political opinions caused your child cancer. Wow, just…wow.
But my point is that although this man’s actions didn’t keep you from the sacrament or the savior (and it shouldn’t, and good for you for having that perspective), I would wager a guess that this isn’t a man who you are going to be best friends with, or seek assistance from in times of trials. He didn’t support you, he tore you down. You’re obviously a woman who likes to look for the good in others and wants to be kind, and I’m sure you *are* polite to this man. But my point is that if we want to be bonded as a sisterhood in the church, those kinds of statements, regardless of people like you who can overlook them and still maintain faith and be kind, do nothing to foster unity and love in a ward. In fact, they do the opposite.
Comment #37 by Heather O.October 19th, 2012 at 8:24 amIs it weird that I looked for a like button in response to this blog update? I have pretty strong feelings about hypocrisy, not just within the church but those outside our church as well. When I was a teenager one of my friends (not a practicing member) told me that Mormons were the worst sinners. On the one hand I agreed. On the other I believe if you want to be treated a certain way you should also practice that treatment with others. That goes for all people everywhere, regardless of religious (or non-religious) affiliations.
Bottom line though? Everyone is trying to get to heaven or be a good person in their own way. Respecting others for their efforts is the most charitable thing we can do.
Comment #38 by PepperOctober 19th, 2012 at 10:16 amLast weekend when I was studying the RS lesson (temporal salvation for ourselves & others) I was reflecting on the part of the lesson about how if we give, then no one will go without. One particular point of the lesson was withholding words of kindness and encouragement.
It got me to thinking… A long time ago, there was a young woman who was to be married to a righteous man. Shortly before they were supposed to marry, he found out she was pregnant. He was a good man, though, and decided to marry her anyway. I wonder what comments, insensitive judgments, etc. were shared with this young couple? Do you (or myself) have any thoughts of what should he should have done or any judgments about her situation?
I would like to think that I would not have been ‘one of those sisters in the ward’ who shared unkind and judgmental thoughts with the young Mary who was destined to be the mother of Christ.
We just don’t know what people are going through nor do we know what is in their hearts. Outwardly, things can seem to be fine, but I’ve been one of those whose heart was being wrung out and sisters in my ward during those dark, dark times told me they would like to have strangled me for showing up late to my nursery calling and another who declined to help me because she needed to clean her empty house to take pictures in order to rent it… meanwhile, I was burning the candle at both ends trying to care for newborn nephews whose mother had died by her own hand three weeks after giving birth.
Even though I am late to this conversation, I appreciate the topic and would just hope and pray that perhaps a few of us will exercise a little more forethought and withhold judgment as much as we can and offer an encouraging word to the wonderful women around us.
Comment #39 by dkhOctober 26th, 2012 at 10:15 pm