By Heather O.

1. Those are really interesting questions–extremely thought provoking. so i’ll take a stab it it:
   1. life-long memeber
   2&3. i feel that as members (and especially as women) that we can guilt-trip ourselves and others into doing things that we’d rather not b/c we are told we need to ’serve’ and we get carried away with the ‘works’ part of salvation.

   everyone has a different interpretation of the gospel, and it becomes meaningful to us because of those differences. its supposed to be personal, this is not a cookie cutter gospel, no matter how much we all dress alike and such. so to people who feel they’re being pressured and made to do things, i say that is because they’re letting themselves be a victim. lots of people (in my fam especially) have this victim mentality and if they’re in a situation where they feel that way, then they must have agreed to enter in at some point. no one holds a gun to your head to join the church, or attend, or take a calling (at least not in any ward i’ve been in), get married, have children, read scriptures, attend pta meetings, make dinners, have big family dinners, go on vacation with kids and spouse, devote every moment and breath to making everyone think we’re perfect.
   ok, stepping off the soapbox.

   Comment #1 by AlisonMay 11th, 2007 at 10:37 am

2. Thanks for the guest-post, Jamie. Good questions…. 

   Convert here, 4 years. Nope, I don’t do anything I don’t feel right about, and sometimes it takes me quite a while to feel right. (Hence we haven’t gone to the Temple yet, and people have stopped asking us when we are going. We will. My husband has been a member two years this year. People might think we’ve done something wrong and can’t go, but that’s not the case at all.)

   At first I felt the pressure, but because I was already making so many changes in my life, it was just part and parcel of where I was at.

   For me now, I’m so comfortable in my own skin, I am unaware if there are even expectations on me (Temple issue aside). It would be a far greater mistake to go against what I have already worked out with the Lord than it would be to let silly social tittering direct my actions.

   Comment #2 by Tracy MMay 11th, 2007 at 10:39 am

3. I’m a life-long member. I think my DH says it best. No matter what kind of testimony you have, the principles of the gospel just make sense. Obeying basic moral laws help us avoid a lot of unnecessary heartache. I’ve learned the valuable skill of saying no when necessary (like when a working neighbor asks me to babysit her little boy for free) and that makes all the difference!

   Comment #3 by ColleenMay 11th, 2007 at 11:04 am

4. I am a convert of about 11 years. A couple years after getting married in the temple, my husband and I went off birth control to discover that I was infertile.

   That infertility colored the next few years of my life at home and in the church. While other young married women were having children right and left, I was the one who daily struggled with not only the emotional trials of infertility at home, but also at church. There was always some well-meaning sister who would smile and ask, “So, when are you going to start having kids?” or the other sisters who would just raise their eyebrows. Of course there were the other sisters, as well, that understood what I was going through and strengthened me every chance they got.

   Throughout those years I discovered, and truly came to understand, that no woman, in - or out- of the church is a cookie-cutter person. I stopped being so hard on myself. I am clear that I am a member of the Lord’s Church. I bow at my Savior’s feet because of the great atoning sacrifice he made for me. I am an eternal being with divine heritage. I am not here to satisfy the questioning looks of the ladies with the raised eyebrows.

   So, long post short, I decided a long time ago that I was never going to fit into some mold others had decided was right for me. I do what I can, when I can, and I never leave the Lord out of any decision I make.

   I am very active at church - And this post wouldn’t be complete if I didn’t add that in 2004 I gave birth to beautiful twin daughters, healthy and perfect in every way.

   Comment #4 by BridgetMay 11th, 2007 at 11:06 am

5. Life-long member.

   Most times I do things out of obligation (like my VT). But I don’t do them because I want to “appear” the way I am “supposed” to in this church. I do them because I think service to our fellow beings is one of the biggest things God would have us do. And so I serve out of obligation hoping to one day serve because of pure love.

   Comment #5 by dedeMay 11th, 2007 at 11:48 am

6. Lifelong member.

   Do I feel pressure to comform to certain standards? Spiritual standards: I feel no pressure from people to conform, only the pressure I put upon myself in order to live right in my eyes and the eyes of the Lord. Cultural standards: I suppose I do feel some pressure to conform, but it seems that as soon as I feel that pressure to conform, I start resisting! If it is something worthwhile to conform to, something that would benefit me and my family, something that is not “faster than I can run,” why not? I can be content with doing things other people are doing, if I know I made the decision because of its benefits, not just because someone else is doing it and I would be looked down upon if I didn’t (this is when I resist).

   Do I say yes to callings extended? Yes, because it’s a new challenge. Am I going to have a dozen children? No, me health won’t allow. Am I going to dress in layers because everyone else at church does? No, it’s too hot. Am I going to take the sacrament with my right hand? Not when I’m holding a two-year old down in order to take just one piece of bread.

   It is a constant struggle to not judge ourselves too harshly against others (often assumed) expectations, my expectations and the Lord’s expectations. It is my feeling that we don’t allow ourselves, others and the Lord to give or receive enough grace. If we allowed ourselves and others more grace and charity, perhaps cultural frustrations would be reduced,testimonies would be saved and self love and confidence would abound. It is a fine line to walk and a daily struggle, but if I can find or give a little love or grace each day, I’m better off and so are the people I associate with.

   Just for fun: my favorite quote about conformism: I wear black because all non-conformists wear black.

   Comment #6 by NuttyMay 11th, 2007 at 11:48 am

7. I’m a life-long member.

   Yes, I sometimes feel pressure. But it’s not from other people. It’s from myself.

   My cousin once said (when she was 18 and thought she knew everything) that she hated RS because every woman was conforming to somthing and she wouldn’t be a part of it. Now, years later, she is in the RS presidency in her ward, and I think she realizes that yeah, maybe she felt she was conforming (and maybe one or two others) but she had no right to speak for all the women of the church.

   There are two sides to this spectrum: Those that rebel just to rebel because their testimony is non-existent or very weak, and those that follow every single commandment to the letter, regardless of personal circumstances or difference in character. I try so hard to be somewhere in between. I want to follow the commandments, and I want to be involved in the Church on many levels. But I also know that if I happen to skip something or make a mistake, then it’s okay. Nobody’s perfect. Growing up, I think my parents handled the balance pretty well. But they did teach me something I’ll never forget: Sometimes obeying the commandments and doing what the Prophet has asked us to do is hard and may even seem impossible, but it doesn’t make it any less important, and in some instances, any less rewarded. We’re blessed when we try our best.

   I feel really sad for your mother, and probably more so because she reminds me of my MIL (who had a similar experience, except she was raised in the church). I hope she makes her way back to the Gospel one day, just as I hope my MIL will, too…

   Comment #7 by CherylMay 11th, 2007 at 12:04 pm

8. I’m a lifelong member. I don’t feel that I have to conform to anything. I am quite satisfied living a “good mormon” life.

   Comment #8 by JillMay 11th, 2007 at 12:32 pm

9. I’m going to be politically incorrect for a second and say that sometimes conforming isn’t all bad. There have been plenty of times when I have rolled my eyes at something that has been going on at church, but do it anyway because that’s what I’m supposed to do, and it has turned out better than I thought. Hey, somebody was smarter than me and had a better plan–who would have thought?

   That said, I agree with the comment that if you feel like you doing EVERYTHING because it is expected of you, you start to feel resentful. It’s much better to do what everybody else is doing because you feel it is the right thing to do, rather than just because everybody is doing it.

   Life long member, by the way.

   Comment #9 by Heather O.May 11th, 2007 at 12:43 pm

10. I think Cheryl made a really good point there… at the other end of the spectrum are people who do everything they’re asked (culturally, the gospel-according-to-their-bishop/RS president/Sunday School teacher) without any regard to personal circumstances. And they judge others for not doing the same. I hate that SO MUCH I it makes me rebel and become so non-conformist I get myself into arguments! Oh dear.

    I am a convert of nearly 30 years. I conform to that which is right and true. I don’t conform to ‘don’t wear denim skirts to church - it’s not worthy’ rubbish (I had a bishop in my old ward who came out with that…*sigh*). I do feel that people pressure one another to conform (the comments above are an example of that…when they say they try not to judge themselves against other people’s expectations, that must mean that people out there do expect something from them).

    However…I think the culture of the church is nice in a lot of ways (for want of a better word). It’s a good way to bring kids up. But the culture should never be the gospel.

    Comment #10 by ChrissieMay 11th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

11. convert of 3 years now, and I can only recall feeling pressure in a couple areas. I’ve certainly never felt pressure about child spacing or homemaking, or that I need to adopt somebody else’s interpretation of doctrine.

    area I did notice pressure:

    going to the temple (done)

    wearing skirts to church (I’ve tired pants 2 or 3 times and felt intensely uncomfortable, though nobody said anything or gave weird looks)

    Not going in a coffee shop (I feel so sneaky and uncomfortable, like somebody would “catch” me there)

    Comment #11 by cchrissyyMay 11th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

12. cchrissyy-
    I’m just curious, so bear with me. In what way did you feel pressure about the Temple going? Were people rude about it?

    Comment #12 by CherylMay 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

13. Could geography have an impact on pressure?

    I know that where I am folks in the Gospel are fairly laid back, accepting timetables for those who are making decisions. We have a gal that took 27 years to get baptized, we have part member families, a gal who smokes is our Nursery leader assistant, we have a newbie who wears dresses that are more appropriate for clubbing than Sac. meeting in the YW pres., and other examples. All these are trying to get on board with Doctrine and working on the personal stuff and traditions as well.

    Yes, there are those who out and out judge these folks, but most of us know they will get here when they get here, and to let them be.

    I agree with the others when they say I put pressure on myself as far as Doctrine and Commandments, but as far as Noni juice and jumpers…well not so much!

    Joking aside, NO ONE should be pressured in regard to accepting ordinances and covenants. Convincing someone they should do this or that when a person is not ready is not only rude, but dangerous and foolish.

    Comment #13 by s'meeMay 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

14. I’m more interested in the pressure you felt to not go in a coffee shop. They sell lots of drinks (and food) there. IIRC, you are British; are British saints in your area ‘pressured’ not to go into pubs as well? They sell, among other things of course, alcohol.

    Comment #14 by claireMay 11th, 2007 at 1:25 pm

15. Lifelong member. Returned missionary from Japan and lots of Pioneer heritage.
    (now that’s some pressure!
    No matter what, I will never go away from the gospel. Often it’s hard. I’ve been through an elderly man asking me, “So, when you having another one?” ew. Horrible or no V.T.s or H.T.s (because we’re active and okay). Difficult callings because I wasn’t allowed to do anything or because husband hates talking on the phone and being social with people he doesn’t know. I have lots of friends in another ward, the sisters in my ward don’t want to be my friend? We’ve been bored, and frustrated and in survival mode. We’ve gone to church because that’s what we do on Sunday. We’ve joked that we might finally get a day of rest if we went inactive. But then, after we made it through all of that, we got the reward of a really great spiritual Sunday and a really great General Conference that I actually stayed awake for and an amazing scripture reading experience and an amazing Temple experience. Ups and downs, it’s worth it.
    I guess the answer is that I pressure myself to try my best to do my best and NEVER EVER GIVE UP.
    I believe in introspection. I think it’s definitely part of the gospel to check and see how you are doing (need to repent?).
    If someone tells me I’m doing something wrong I can pray about it and find out from the Highest Authority whether I need to change or not. I love the gospel!

    I love the movie “Single’s Ward” because that’s the whole message…You do it because you WANT to, not because you are “supposed to”.

    Also, I think, it’s one thing to lovingly talk with your spouse about the gospel and how to implement it better in your life… it’s quite another to get preached to by a husband in a difficult marriage. I can see the church stuff getting intertwined with marriage resentment and pain.

    Comment #15 by roster007May 11th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

16. Oh, man, I wear denim skirts almost every Sunday! I had no idea I wasn’t worthy!
    I think there can be pressure to conform, and it can be a mixed thing. On the one hand, growing up, (life long member), among the youth there was pressure to conform to standards, like not drinking. It was helpful in resisting that temptation. On the other hand, I remember my cousin freaking out because somebody had secretly spiked her friend’s drink. This girl had taken one sip, known something was wrong and thrown the rest away. But, my cousin was so caught up in the ideal of never even tasting alcohol that it was like her friend was somehow soiled by this. It really bugged me.

    I worry about the pressure to conform to things that are external to the actual gospel. My son, who is eight, refused to go to church last week, because his white shirt was dirty, and he had to wear his blue one. His reason was that all the other Valiant boys wore white shirts, and so it was bad to wear a coloured shirt to church. This is partly because he is at that age, but it upset me that he is getting the message that you aren’t welcome at church unless you conform to certain ideas of appearance.

    Comment #16 by RobbieMay 11th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

17. I am a lifelong member, and never really felt pressure to conform until I got married.

    Not from my husband, but my in-laws are significantly more conservative and controlling than my family had been. I felt pressure to conform in a lot of ways. Especially to have children right away, according to one in-law, marriage without having kids is just a license to have sex. I also felt like in general I couldn’t be my opinionated, Democratic, intellectual, fabulous and faithful self. All of a sudden I started to feel like because those things didn’t fit the norm they were perceived as unrighteous by his family. This led to a huge spiritual crisis for me that lasted about a year.

    Eventually though, I came to the realization that those things that I was being pressured to conform to were cultural more than religious. That I was still a good and spiritual person. In short, I’ve been able to overcome that and have reaffirmed my resolve to not let others sway me out of what I know is right for me.

    Comment #17 by RachelMay 11th, 2007 at 3:31 pm

18. I love my license to have sex! Wha-hoo!

    Comment #18 by CherylMay 11th, 2007 at 4:00 pm

19. Thank you all for your wonderful comments. I love seeing everyone’s perspective. Please keep them coming.

    Oh and roster007 I want to make it clear that my father is not the reason my parents got divorced. It was not a difficult marriage where he abused any power he had over her. He was lovingly leading her along the gospel path. Growing up I always knew my dad had a strong testimony of the gospel and my mom struggled with it. You could tell. She felt pressure because she knew she was only doing things so she could look righteous on the outside. Guilt is a killer…

    Comment #19 by Jamie JMay 11th, 2007 at 4:04 pm

20. “…marriage without having kids is just a license to have sex.”

    Bwa-hahahaha!

    Heaven knows, after you do have kids, your license gets severely restricted!!

    Comment #20 by Tracy MMay 11th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

21. I have been in a few wards and stakes, and I find that in every one there are people who get an idea in their head (like, denim skirts = evil, or not wearing a white shirt = first step on the road to perdition) and they can’t let it go! I had the most awful experience last year with one of my YW not being allowed to go to camp because of a choice she made at school that had nothing at all to do with camp (which, by the way, you dont’ have to have a recommend for!) I was/am very bothered by the idea that some people feel they get to make the rules and enforce them. I agree with those who are saying that the pressure to conform just makes me want to rebel. Every now and then I wear flip-flops to church without stockings, and it makes me feel good! I have been a member all my life and I have noticed a trend. The people who are most concerned about how well I am following the rules, and “THE RULES”, are often those whose testimony hasn’t been closely examined and they feel they are not able to stand up to personal scrutiny. I don’t feel pressure to conform because I know, for example, that I wear modest clothes because I believe in the principal not just because someone says I have to. And I don’t conform to things that have nothing to do with my testimony!

    Comment #21 by LisaMay 11th, 2007 at 6:56 pm

22. I’ve worn pants to church–TWICE! One time nobody said anything, another time I was fully taken to task for it (by a man, BTW). I told him that my pants suit cost more than anything else in my closet, and that it was classy, modest, and elegant (which it was.) I also told him I didn’t think God cared if I wore a skirt, as long as I looked respectful in the way I dressed. He backed off, and did tell me grudgingly that I did look nice.

    I have to admit, though, I didn’t wear the pants suit again, only because I felt like the conflict it caused really wasn’t worth making a “statement” I didn’t really care that much about. Sometimes you have to make those kind of concessions.

    I do still wear flip flops, though. It’s hot here. Nylons totally blow. Sue me.

    Comment #22 by Heather O.May 11th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

23. I had no clue we were unholy because my boys wear blue shirts. DH, too, occasionally.

    You would have better luck getting an angry tomcat in nylons than getting me in those heinous inventions. If naked legs make me bad, bite me.

    We can be a whole family of Unholies- my boys in chambray, and me and Abby in bare legs!!

    Comment #23 by Tracy MMay 11th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

24. so if denim skirts are un-holy, how do they take little boys wearing shorts to chruch? Every summer I buy ds a nice pair of shorts to wear and I think that he looks great. He’s 6 btw.

    Comment #24 by moddyMay 11th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

25. Well for sure I’m going to Hell in a handbasket! Anyone want me to save them a seat?

    Not only have I worn pants to church, I’ve worn… DENIM PANTS to church!

    I am really, reeeeeeeeallly fat. I’m not just being modest here, either. But speaking of modesty… I stopped wearing my skirt to church because there was a slit in the back. And in my paranoia, I felt I was showing off too much of my self. I felt I could “hide” myself better if I were in dark pants. So I wore the best shirts I had, and started wearing makeup, to cover for the fact that I was wearing denim pants to church. Nobody said a word!

    Comment #25 by SallyGirlMay 12th, 2007 at 12:07 am

26. p.s. Lifelong member, and have since found a skirt I feel more comfortable in.

    Comment #26 by SallyGirlMay 12th, 2007 at 12:08 am

27. No matter how we discuss this topic, I swear it always comes down to this denim skirt, flip flops thing, which I don’t get at all. We’ve come a longer way than this, haven’t we, Sisters??

    Comment #27 by LAGirrrlMay 12th, 2007 at 1:13 am

28. Convert of 40 something years. I must admit I’ve never felt pressured to conform to anything other than modesty (no pressure needed). I do find myself disliking seeing women in flip flops at church but I think it is more a generational thing than a cultural thing. We did have a Bishop once who asked us to wear dresses even to Presidency meetings etc. but that didn’t last long - I think most of the sisters just ignored this advice. I do believe that we often feel pressure that isn’t really there or should I say really comes from ourselves not any one else.

    Comment #28 by alaskagrandmaMay 12th, 2007 at 2:04 am

29. One of the women I most admired in our last ward frequently wore pantsuits to church. I don’t think anyone cared.

    I, however, never wear denim skirts. They look horrible on me, you see; there is nothing less flattering to my figure.

    Anyway, no, I don’t feel a lot of pressure to conform, and never have. Lifelong member here.

    Comment #29 by dangermomMay 12th, 2007 at 2:20 am

30. convert. no pressure to conform. husband’s lifelong pioneer stock and no pressure for him, either. we’re both pretty laid-back about stuff like that, though.

    it used to really bother me when people would use “because i’m lds” to explain what they did or didn’t do. (i’ve lightened up since then, but it’s still not my favorite thing to hear.) i like to think that i chose the lds church because it fit my beliefs and patterns, not that i’ve adjusted those things to fit the church.

    Comment #30 by makakonaMay 12th, 2007 at 4:51 am

31. I think there’s pressure from everywhere. Pressure to drink or smoke, pressure to be stick thin, pressure to watch the latest movie that may not be appropriate, pressure to drive a fancy car, pressure to have a career, pressure to stay at home, pressure to have children, pressure to not. Sure, I feel pressure from members of the Church sometimes, but I also feel a tremendous amount of pressure to do and be other things from people outside the Church. It’s interesting to me that often when people talk about conforming they make it seem like the only place that pressure comes from is religion. But the truth is, we all are subject to the ideals and taboos of whatever society and groups we involve ourselves in. I think the trick is separating that from what the Gospel is really about. It’s an ongoing process - there’s no quick fix answer that you find once and then have for the rest of your life. I have to continually ask myself “Is this really something I need to do to become closer to God? Is this right for ME and MY family, not necessarily the people next door?” Once I honestly figure out those answers, the choice of what to do becomes pretty clear. There may still be pressure to do or be something else, but I no longer feel it (or maybe, care about it) because I know that what’s right for me may not necessarily be right for someone else. And that’s okay.

    Comment #31 by NGMay 12th, 2007 at 10:41 am

32. NG-
    That’s a perfect response to those that claim we follow blindly (and that all religious people follow their choice of religion blindly). Love it!

    Comment #32 by CherylMay 12th, 2007 at 11:27 am

33. Live long member

    I think there was quite a bit of pressure when I was in YW. Goodness, that was an awful time in my life. But, once I stated college and realized 3/4 of the people there had no idea who on earth I was, I started over. I became myself. And you know what, I had way more friends because of it. Way more.

    I am sort of a conforming non-conformist…I have followed all the commandments, kept the WofW, etc… That being said: I went through the Temple at 20. I wasn’t getting married or going on a mission. I just felt that it was the time to go. I thought my parents would say “No Way”, but they were totally cool with it…I think that is sort of a “non-conformist” thing to do.

    I have short, spiky hair. Not very Mormonish (is that a word?). I work full-time (which I don’t like) with my child going to a baby sitter (who loves him dearly) - non-conformist. I wear baggy clothes (comfy) and don’t really care what people think.

    My ward seems to hit food storage hard. Pressure, sort of. But I’m not going to be shunned by the other ladies for not having it. That’s not how this ward works. I like to VT. I like my companion and meeting other women. I like singing in the choir and teaching Sunday School.

    So, no. I don’t feel pressure. But then again, I don’t really care. So there wouldn’t be any anyway…

    Comment #33 by AmyMay 12th, 2007 at 5:35 pm

34. ok, lots of comments and not a lot of time to read them. So sorry if I repeat what someone else has already said.

    Life-long here (though inactive until I was 14…if that counts)

    Do I feel pressure? I guess it depends on what kind of pressure you are talking about. As far as the doctrinal gospel is concerned. No. I too only do what I feel right about and it is the same as the true church stances on everything I know of.
    As far as percieved doctrine… or the LDS subculture (I’m from a highly LDS area) as I like to call it. Yes. I hate that some women seam to think that if you are not a Scrapbooking Wondercooking Stay At Home Mom that makes homemade quilts for all of your children you somehow are not “good enough” and must not be living the gospel the “right” way. I feel pressure that even though I do have some food storage (and I’m working on getting all of it) it’s somehow an indication of my “righteousness” that I don’t also have a generator stashed somewhere. My true pet peave as far as the subculture pressure though… is that if you have any kind of colorful past (convert or not) that taught you all sorts of valuable lifes lessons … even if you have repented. You somehow are still not good enough. WHAT is up with the judgementalism that is totally contradictory to the TRUE gospel? another example. Homosexuals, hate the sin not the sinner… but somehow quite often I find very danty, passive aggressive (polite) gay bashing in relief society. Yes I feel pressure to conform to some of these things, though I don’t because I know that they are not what it is all about! I love the gospel with all of my heart! I do see, however, how someone could get fed up with the pressure that shouldn’t even be there.

    Comment #34 by AprilMay 12th, 2007 at 10:48 pm

35. re: temple pressure, I didn’t mean it in a negative way. We very much wanted to go, conforming wasn’t going to be a problem, and nobody was rude about it. It’s just that people brought it up to us so often, the pressure/expectation was clearly there.

    claire- I’m the one who mentioned the coffee shop but I’m not British, I’m Californian. And yes, they sell non-coffee drinks and snacks in there. And I feel so self-conscious walking in and out, or carrying one of their cups as I shop around. I’ve never bumped into a ward member, but I do get the 3rd degree from my husband re: the exact ingredients of my drink choices. It’s an ongoing (minor) conflict. I guess I imagine running into my VT and feeling the need to list every ingredient for her and justify my WoW position.
    so yeah, there’s more story to that. My hb doesn’t want me to patronize them at all and for 3 years I didn’t but very recently my attitude became more “oh well, it’s my choice, none of your business”

    Comment #35 by cchrissyyMay 13th, 2007 at 11:41 am

36. Member for 40+ years! - and English. I feel the pressure to conform now is a lot less than it was in the 70’s/80’s. Nowadays (at least in my Ward) we are a lot more laid-back. We’ve learned to love and value differences. No-one bats an eyelid if they hear you’ve been to a pub for a meal. Indeed in England you would be hard-pressed to find a decent place to eat that didn’t also serve alcohol. No-one would ever think you weren’t living the Word of Wisdom, if you ate there.

    I strive to live the ‘principles’ of the gospel - I’m not the least bothered about the ‘policies’ and cultural baggage that comes with being a member.

    Comment #36 by AnnMay 13th, 2007 at 1:27 pm

37. Adult convert (20 years ago).

    As a new convert, I wanted to do everything right, and there were a lot of cultural things that were part of that. Many of those were domestic tasks (making my own bread). Another was the whole “cult of the early riser” thing. I notice surfaces a lot, and there were many surface things that Mormon women did that I thought were part and parcel of being a Mormon woman. The guilt of feeling I had to continue working at paid employment even though I had young children was pretty intense.

    After about 10 years of this it really started to wear me down, because so many of those surface things I was trying to do that Good Mormon Women did were just so uninteresting/difficult/unpleasant. I had started to see myself as defective, because these things were obviously what God wants us to be doing, because everybody seemed to be doing them, but I always felt like I was just pretending when I tried to do them, too.

    At some point, during a temple trip where I shared the driving with a psychologist who did work for industries on vocational identity, I had a eureka experience during our conversations. I didn’t have to conform to the cultural norms in order to be acceptable to God as a latter day saint woman. It was a life-changing paradigm shift. I was OK as I was!

    When I lost my faith, I almost felt like I had to construct another “self,” one that wasn’t Mormon any more, but was not the person I had been before I joined the church (because I didn’t like that person particularly, and didn’t want to “revert.”) I had a long period of intense self-hatred that I’ve emerged from with a strong sense of not caring what other people think, unless they are people whose opinions I genuinely value. On the other hand, I really have no problem any more conforming to social mores such as dress and grooming standards. It’s simply not worth the mental energy to fight it. If God doesn’t care what I wear, then he doesn’t care if I conform to church standard apparel or not, so why not make it easy on myself? It’s not a fight I’m interested in any more.

    Comment #37 by AnnMay 13th, 2007 at 1:47 pm

38. Sorry, I misunderstood the situation. Please accept my apology.
    My husband said that people who feel guilty feel a need to explain to their family members about whatever they feel guilty about. Right?
    I love all the talk about jean skirts and flip flops. Personally, I’ve had to get over a sister using Sunday School to read statements from General Authorities to prove that you should have more than 1 or 2 kids (like her). (I have 2.)
    I agree that as a church we need to not judge each other, just be happy people come to church, not sweat the smallest of stuff AND most importantly not take offense. (”Water off a duck’s back” is my favorite helpful mantra.)
    I WISH I COULD be that 50s Mormon housewife with a clean house that bakes bread and is a master gardener and has a year’s supply,(THE IDEAL!). But, I have to be realistic, I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and I do my best to just keep it together. I say NO when I need to and other sisters might look at me funny, but, I know me and what I can and can’t do. Heavenly Father knows too. The gospel has always been between yourself and God, not between you and the sister sitting next to you judging you.

    Comment #38 by roster007May 14th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

39. Hey, I bake bread and garden. I’m still going to hell.

    Comment #39 by Heather O.May 14th, 2007 at 2:35 pm

40. cchrissyy-
    That’s good. I was just making sure that people weren’t looking down on you for not going to the Temple. Most people, I’m sure, brought it up because of their good-hearted concern and hope for you.

    I’ve been thinking a lot about not judging people lately, and I’ve decided, that the hardest part is not juding the woman who is judging me. Does that make sense? To not be upset with the women that conform to social/cultural Mormonism and expect me to do the same. To not assume that somehow she thinks she’s better –because just as she can’t see my heart, I can’t see hers…Now THAT is hard!

    Comment #40 by cherylMay 14th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

41. “Hey, I bake bread and garden. I’m still going to hell.”

    Hey! At least you’re going there well fed. lol (Sorry, couldn’t resist.

    Comment #41 by roster007May 15th, 2007 at 10:38 am

42. I am a convert to the gospel for 12 years now and at times I have felt pressure from some members to conform to the “culture” aspect of the church. I live in a small town and some members here dress their little girls up like little dolls for church. Perfect “princess” dresses, ribbons in the hair, the whole nine yards. I don’t disagree with them about making their children look nice for church, it is the judgment and looks that I get sometimes for not dressing my girls the same way. I believe that the church is perfect and the members are not. The missionaires told me that statement just before my baptism and I’ve carried that thru my church experiences. I love the Savior and I love my Heavenly Father and I don’t believe they are upset when I dress my children in clean, modest church attire. I think we need to seperate “culture” from church doctrine and then serve each other with love and without judgements and then we can become truly Christ like.

    Comment #42 by mommyto3May 15th, 2007 at 10:52 am

43. I would like to refer to Neil L. Anderson’s talk, “It’s True, Isn’t it? Then what else matters?” from April conference. (I don’t really have that good of a memory I just so happened to read this one for VTing). All too often people in the church get too caught up in what others around them are doing. Sometimes because they are too nosey and outspoken but other times I think it comes from a place of “this is what works for me, it should work for everyone.” Advice or comments should be taken in stride… use them if you like them and sluff them off if you don’t. What it really comes down to is that we need to not worry about those around us, especially judgements about what we “should” be doing. I love the quote by President Hinckley Anderson uses in the talk “When [an individual] is motivated by great and powerful convictions of truth, then he disciplines himself, not because of demands made by the Church but because of the knowledge wihin his heart.” Anderson went on to say “Are we sufficiently motivated by ‘great and powerul convictions of truth’? Do our choices reflect this motivation? Are we becoming who we want to become? It’ true, isn’t it? Then what else matters?” The way you live your life is between you and the Lord… not the members of your ward.

    Comment #43 by Methodical wormerMay 18th, 2007 at 11:38 pm

44. I have serious issues with people who have serious issues with colored shirts, two piece bathing suits, or anything else modest and respectful just because it doesn’t fit their misguided interpretation of gospel standards. (Whew, long sentence). In fact, I started writing a guest post about this, but ran out of steam. I was at a YW swim party last year when the hostess considered kicking a 12 year old nonmember visitor out of her pool because she was wearing a tankini that bared 3 inches of belly and two piece bathing suits are not allowed in her pool. One of the righteous young women of the ward was standing next to her in skintight jeans and a tank top that displayed a good portion of her bra and all that it was meant to support. Hmmm, double standard anyone? Also, pink shirts bad, but Homer Simpson tie okay? Can’t wear street clothes in the chapel, but it is fine to gossip loudly during the SM prelude music in the chapel. AAAAAARGH! Help me, Rhonda!

    Comment #44 by popchickMay 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pm

45. “Many women feel that there is a Relief Society ‘mold’ that they have to fit into to be acceptable. I love the experience of Karen Lynn Davidson, a stake Relief Society President in California [teacher at a Catholic girls’ school; single until 38; no children of her own]..She says- and I love this! “Paradoxically, I serve an important purpose by not fitting the traditional image..I’m a daily reminder to our stake.” (97-8) ‘Cat’s Cradel’ by Chieko Okasaki’

    Comment #45 by mckenzieJune 16th, 2007 at 10:39 am

46. COOKIE CUTTER

    diverstiy

    I love Chieko Okazaki, former RS General Presidency. She spoke at a 1997 Puheesta stake women’s conference when these notes were taken.

    DISCOVER THE JOY

    Sister Okazaki began her remarks by holding up 4 cookie cutters and asking the audience what they thought cookie cutters had to do with joy. She told us we’d come back to the cookie cutters, and she then outlined four principles from the theme scripture D&C 42:61: 1) asking, 2) revelation, 3) knowledge, and 4) mysteries & peaceable things.

    She said that we often get a lot of promissory notes at church–if you have Family Home Evening your kids will get along with each other; if you’re obedient you’ll be happy; if you work harder, do better, or do things more times, you’ll be blessed. She pointed out that this scripture doesn’t mention any of the myriad things we’re all *should* do, but concentrated on 4 gospel basics.

    Sister Okazaki said we have to ask for assistance from the Lord for two reasons: He won’t violate our agency even to give us good things, and He wants to lure us into conversation with him. The first step is to ask and we shall receive–a principle reiterated often in the scriptures. She also said not to worry over prayer protocol or pronouns, just ASK . (law of attraction)

    She then described the two kinds of revelation we can receive: 1)revelation about the nature of God & the meaning of life (testimony) and 2) revelations that are outpourings of specific information regarding our daily lives (personal). The first we need like we need oxygen, the second like we need our daily bread; she also said we NEED to feel joy in our lives.

    She then described a list of things that *should* bring us joy, and likened this to a blue plate special, saying the messages we get a church often treat us like every woman’s needs are the same, one size fits all, and that we should be like everyone else. Mothers are supposed to find total joy & fulfillment in bearing and raising children; single women are supposed to find joy in preparing to marry and raise families; widows like herself are supposed to find joy in enduring to the end.

    She said the problem with these messages is that they do not treat you as an individual. Praying, serving, reading scriptures, and going to the temple are good things, but these messages are not tailored to individual circumstances. She wondered if others felt as she does sometimes–that she doesn’t *want* one more blue plate special, and feels like she’ll gag on what someone else is trying to feed her.

    She then returned to the cookie cutter analogy, saying that cookie cutters are for cookies, not for human beings, and we should not try to live someone else’s life, or compare ourselves to others.

    She then told stories of two women. The first was about Donna Jean Holiday, mother of 10, who after moving to Salt Lake City, suffered a nervous breakdown & depression from the pressures of trying to be supermom. One day, she told her family she was going for a walk and disappeared. She left a note which described her feeling that she was impeding her family’s progress and that they’d be better off without her. Last week, her body was found with a gunshot wound to the head. Sister Okazaki mourned the circumstances that would make this woman feel she was better off dead.

    She then told a story of another woman who had written to her about finding herself in similar circumstances: depression, at the end of her rope, spending years struggling in joyless circumstances. She, too, thought at times that death would be a blessing. But one day, she was reading through one of Sister Okazaki’s books and ran across a passage that echoed King Benjamin’s statements: we would give, but we have not–that sometimes there’s nothing left for us to give. When were in what Sister Okazaki called a season of depletion, it’s OK to await our time of renewal without feeling guilty about our inability to give. The second sister felt like someone had really understood her and loved her, even if she was just reading words on a page.

    Comment #46 by mckenzieJune 16th, 2007 at 10:42 am

47. test

    Comment #47 by mckenzieJune 16th, 2007 at 10:53 am

48. Thanks for those notes, mckenzie. Cheiko Okazaki is a wise woman.

    Comment #48 by MelindaJune 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm

49. http://www.mormonmommywars.com/?p=681

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    Sister Okazaki asked what will create this atmosphere of understanding and love?
    Does it help to bellow cheerful advice,
    To tell someone to get on with their lives?

    No.

    She said if anyone there felt unappreciated, worthless, degraded, unloved, sad, etc. to
    get help from the Lord, the Relief Society president, the bishop, home teachers, family, and a therapist…

    To realize you are *worth* rearranging the environment for.
    You are worth changing society for.
    Find your VOICE. Be heard.
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Comment #49 by mckenzieJune 18th, 2007 at 4:43 am

50. She said sometimes we live cookie cutter lives, and there can come a time when the boundaries don’t feel good anymore; that’s when we need personal revelation from our Heavenly Father & Heavenly Mother. We may have discovered that we’re not the right person for that particular cookie cutter, and we ought not lop off parts of ourselves to try to fit into someone else’s shape.

    Sister Okazaki then returned to the points from the scriptures: ask for revelation about the way the Savior wants us to live–that all we may have to go on is a tiny flicker, but to

    Comment #50 by mckenzieJune 18th, 2007 at 4:43 am

51. Life long member. I think whether you feel pressure to conform is based on whether the way you experience religion is intrinsic or extrinsic. Being very intrinsic, I have never felt any sort of pressure to conform. But I’ve known some very extrinsic people who also “experience” religion as a social experience and they feel a LOT of pressure to conform. From my perspective it’s all made-up pressure, but being intrinsically motivated toward religion rather than extrinsically motivated, I just don’t notice those pressures.

    Comment #51 by emilyJune 21st, 2007 at 6:21 pm

52. hi, andar here, i just read your post. i like very much. agree to you, sir.

    Comment #52 by andar909August 10th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

53. Hey, I realize that this is an older blog and that no one else may read it. I was looking for an official church declaration that women are supposed to wear nylons to church. My roommates are telling me that there is one, and I haven’t heard anything about it. I’ve heard of stake presidents saying that, but it seems like “The Gospel According To President Jones” to me.

    I’m a lifelong member, 18 years old, a freshman at BYUI. I sometimes feel pressured in the church. Not in the big things, but in the little things. Like nylons, or the style of clothes I wear. And I’m not talking about modesty– I understand that principle and abide by it because I know the reasons behind it. But there are certain perfectly modest styles of clothing that don’t fit the “Mormon Mold.” I actually feel this kind of pressure more strongly now I’m at college, probably because it’s BYUI, whereas before I wasn’t in the Land of Mormon (lol). This school is awesome, don’t get me wrong, it’s an AMAZING place. But I think sometimes when you get a lot of Mormons together in one place, they start to get tunnel vision. I sometimes find Mormons from Utah or southeast Idaho to be really annoying, because they assume certain things that just aren’t true. There’s a tendency to get a bit pharisaical– “hedge about the law”– on the little things. Church dress seems to be the biggest one. Nowhere is it written, “thou shalt wear only white shirts to church,” “thou shalt not wear denim to church,” “thou shalt wear nylons to church.” It’s really irritating when people judge you on those things.

    Comment #53 by AubrieOctober 24th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

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